[lit-ideas] I'll Make A Man Of Anyone Of You

From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 23:59:04 EDT
Good, Larry!

---- 

And I'm glad you were not  offended.

Anyway, I was using 'soldier' metaphorically, or extensively  (rather than 
intensely). I may have meant 'mercenary' (Just joking!). But  seriously, I 
THINK, 'soldier' IS related to 'salary', but I'm not sure. In any,  case it 
SEEMS to be related to 'wage' (as in "Wager" :)). In any case,  'mercenary' 
is. I SHOULD CHECK the etymology of 'soldier' or 'mercenary'.  

This was indeed, the old Roman idea, when they had to recruit PAID army.  
And perhaps it relates to Veronica Caley's rather casual remark that "it is a 
 pity when a soldier doesn't have a better way to earn a life", which I 
thought  was pretty offensive!

-------

So, anyway, I'm reminded of "I'll  make a man of anyone of you", the song 
where it's all about 'taking the  shilling', which I ALSO finds offensive.

---- (The song features in "Oh,  Oh, Oh, it's a lovely war").

Anyway, back to more detailed comment on  Helm:


In a message dated 5/26/2010 11:07:32 P.M.,  lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
writes:
In what respect could I have been  offended?  I was not a "soldier" but a 
"Marine."  
 
--- Apologies about that. I was using 'soldier' generally. I wonder if you  
know of people who are not, strictly, soldiers, but call themselves 
'soldiers'.  (i.e. that they use 'soldier' generally). 
 
"When I went through Boot Camp, Combat Training, Advanced Combat Training,  
it was assumed (our instructors not utterly recovered from the high 
casualty  rates suffered as the Marines "Island hopped" in the Pacific during 
World 
War  II) that even though we were mere PFCs at the time, our corporals, 
sergeants and  lieutenants "might be" killed off; so we were taught to think 
beyond our duties  as PFCs and learn to function in those higher grades just 
in case we had to take  over when our immediate superior was killed."
 
That's interesting. I suppose it was a sensible policy: to work vis a vis  
what may happen if others die. I suppose not a lot of people work  like 
that, and I know a few who would be at a total loss if those  who they depend 
on 
DIE.
  
Helm continues:

"I don't know what John Wager means  by "ambiguity and independent 
judgment."  It didn't seem like we had that  in the Marine Corps.  At least not 
"ambiguity.""
 
That's very good. Grice has this silly maxim, "Avoid ambiguity" -- so the  
point on ambiguity by Wager was too general to be true. So I'm relieved that 
you  take issue with the second, more important bit, about 'independent 
judgement'. I  liked your qualifications about it, which shed light (or other) 
on Wager's  points.
 
Helm:
"We had "independent judgment" in regard to determining the best way to do  
something.  That is, independent judgment followed by a voiced opinion  
which would count when someone of a higher rank made the final decision --  
unless we were to be on our own in some operation; then our "independent  
judgment" prevailed."
It's VERY good you had a voiced opinion. That IS pretty rare, and I would  
think Wager knows of scenarios or reminiscences when soldiers DON'T have the 
 right to a voiced opinion. As a consequence, their opinions, some of which 
ARE  voiced, are never thought of as flowing from the judgement 
(independent or not  -- "Kiss me goodnight, Sargeant Major" -- "Sargeant Major, 
be a 
mother to me"). 
Helm: "Of course I don't mean by "independent" something counter to the  
good of operation or our fellow Marines.  I mean, determining for ourselves  
the best way to get the job done."
I assume this applies to the second case, when there was no real  
'superior', and "we were to be on our own in some operation". Where perhaps  
the 'we' 
is ambiguous. If it meant an operation where Lawrence Helm was to  be on 
HIS own in some operation"
i.e.
"unless [I was] to be on [my] own in some operation; then  [my] 
'independent judgement' prevailed".
--- I would think the subscenario here would be if you allowed your  
inferiors (opposite of superior) to have voiced opinions. 
The philosopher that I am, I would hold seminars on each point, alla Grice, 
 and taking cancellable implicatures, with the result that nobody would be 
even  marching. Ah well.
 
J. L. Speranza
 
"



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[lit-ideas] I'll Make A Man Of Anyone Of You

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