[lit-ideas] FW: Re: Better to have had faith
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 22:56:28 -0400
I didn't mention that the loops forming in the brain was what I was
responding to. I didn't write that.
> [Original Message]
> From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 5/25/2005 10:42:02 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Better to have had faith
>
> Maybe because to me "a blinding to reality" is someone getting excited
> enough about religion to take science out of schools and otherwise embrace
> superstition over empirical evidence. Maybe because I saw the look on my
> nephew's face as he told me about accepting Christ and how they're home
> schooling to avoid contact with non-religious ideas for their kids.
Maybe
> I think you have to be weird to be willing to die rather than give up the
> tooth fairy, er, God. Are you in the habit of taking LSD and standing on
a
> window ledge, so to you this is normal?
>
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Graeme Wend-Walker <graemeww@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 5/25/2005 9:20:34 PM
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Better to have had faith
> >
> > Andy, I appreciate your thoughts on the psychology of conversion, but
your
> > constant and seemingly automatic movements to assert that all peak
> > experiences amount to a "heroin-like high, a blinding to reality", and
> that
> > all the most extreme forms of religious response can be equated to "any
> > religion", leave me wondering how much of that
loops-forming-in-the-brain
> > stuff doesn't also apply to you. Why is it, I wonder, that you, too,
> cannot
> > entertain doubts? To what have you been converted?
> >
> > Graeme Wend-Walker
> > Macquarie University, Sydney
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Better to have had faith
> > Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 16:03:44 -0400
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From:
> > > To: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 5/22/2005 6:13:47 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Better to have had faith
> > >
> > >
> > > >Listening to him relate the experience of the day he was born again
has
> > to
> > > >be like listening to a drug addict describe his first shot.
> > >
> > > Admittedly, there is a similarity here. However, I don't think this
is a
> > > useful way of looking at the phenomenon.
> > >
> > > What seems to happen in the brain, when a person "converts" in this
> > manner,
> > > is that doubts suddenly get interpreted, not as doubts, but as
> certitude.
> > > Suddenly, anytime one has a doubt (as one normally does have doubts),
> > this
> > > experience of having a doubt is no longer being *understood* as that
of
> > > having a doubt. Instead, suddenly, it is being understood as being
> > certain.
> > > When that loop forms in the brain, the result is a fixation.
> > >
> > > Notice how such an event occurs. Usually, what immediately precedes
the
> > > "conversion experience" is an escalation of the anticipated
consequences
> > of
> > > doubt. Typically, the potential convert is thinking about the infinite
> > > danger of an eternity in the flames of hell. Doubt, instead of being
> > merely
> > > an unpleasant and unsettling experience, becomes the ultimate terror,
> > > because, if one allows oneself to entertain any doubt at all, then one
> is
> > > doomed. The preacher, in order to induce such a transformation,
usually
> > > pulls some such sort of absolutist "Jonathan Edwards" trick in his
> > oratory.
> > >
> >
> >
> > A.A. I do agree that defining one's life within very narrow parameters
is
> > comforting for many people. Having God take over all one's cares, take
> all
> > doubt and uncertainty out of life and having him fill up the emptiness
in
> > the bargain has to be immensely seductive and powerful. Unfortunately,
> > there's no free lunch. The trade off is that it leaves a person
something
> > of an automaton and makes them happy with a reality that exists
> essentially
> > in their mind, not terribly unlike drugs in my opinion. That would be
> fine
> > if it weren't exclusive of reality in general. For example, Nicky and
his
> > wife are home schooling the kids so the kids don't come in contact with
> > non-Christians and non-Christian ideas. How is that different from a
> > totalitarian society doing mind control of its population? Or from
being
> > in a cult? Likewise, how is living and breathing any religion 24/7
> > different from being mellowed out on opium?
> >
> >
> > Andy Amago
> >
> >
> >
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