[ibis-quality] Minutes from the 8 sep 2009 ibis-quality meeting
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-quality@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:24:44 -0400
Minutes from the 8 sep 2009 ibis-quality meeting are attached.
Mike
Minutes, IBIS Quality Committee
08 September 2009
11-12 AM EST (8-9 AM PST)
ROLL CALL
Adam Tambone
* Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
Barry Katz, SiSoft
Benny Lazer
Benjamin P Silva
Bob Cox, Micron
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brian Arsenault
David Banas, Xilinx
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia Siemens Networks
Eric Brock
Guan Tao, Huawei Technologies
Gregory R Edlund
Hazem Hegazy
Huang Chunxing, Huawei Technologies
John Figueroa
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
Katja Koller, Nokia Siemens Networks
Kevin Fisher
Kim Helliwell, LSI Logic
* Lance Wang, IOMethodology
* Lynne Green, Green Streak Programs
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Mayer, SiSoft
* Moshiul Haque, Micron Technology
Muniswarareddy Vorugu, ARM Ltd
Pavani Jella, TI
Peter LaFlamme
Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Radovan Vuletic, Qimonda
Robert Haller, Enterasys
Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design & Communications
Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Kazuyoshi Shoji, Hitachi
Sadahiro Nonoyama
Liqun, Huawei
Everyone in attendance marked by *
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-----------------------MINUTES ---------------------------
Mike LaBonte conducted the meeting.
Call for opens and patent disclosures:
- No one declared a patent.
- Lynne would like to discuss her feedback, emailed to Mike
AR Review:
- Mike try to reduce TOC to 2 pages
- Dropping from 12 pt to 10 pt did not do it
- We will keep the 3 page format
- Mike link to new IQ 2.0 document on our web page
- Done
- Mike asked what date the Open Forum might vote to accept
- Bob: Oct 30 will be OK
- Mike change web site to avoid using frames
- Ongoing
New items:
Mike showed Lynne's file Touchstone_quality.txt:
- Lynne: These are suggestions I am throwing into the hat
- Mike: The TSCHK checker is in development now
- Lynne: One of the suggested checks is causality, which TSCHK will not check
- Bob: Most EDA tools do this check
- It would be nice to have it in TSCHK though
- Passivity is not always important
- It might be a warning check, not error
- Mike: Maybe someone would contribute code
- Lynne: It's fairly easy to write
- Mike: One of the suggestions is about noise limits
- Why is this a problem?
- Lynne: Converting matrices creates a lot of magnitudes close to zero
- Mike: Is this avoidable?
- Lynne: More digits would help
- The fuzz can cause passivity failures
- Bob: Not sure what tools do about this
- Mike: It would be a problem if TSCHK passed a file and an EDA tool failed it
- Lynne: It can be a manual check too
- Bob: We should check for reciprocity, where S12 must equal S21
- Lynne: That is not required
- Bob: Passive networks should inherently be reciprocal
- Lynne: That would be an easy TSCHK check anyway
- Bob: It may fail due to noise
- There may be helpful methods using Eigenvalues or averaging
- Lynne: It is best to have people actually looking at the data
- Lynne's email: "Port mapping to physical comopnent or structure" is a
datasheet check
- Bob: Walter (Katz) is working on Electrical Module Description, which is
related
- Mike: What is the port mapping issue?
- Lynne: There are no port names in a Touchstone file
- Some automatic tools put matrix elements in random order
- Lynne's email: "Special checks for 2-port, mixed mode, and differential"
- The file has to say mixed-mode or differential
- Bob: TS2 has requirements for these
- Lynne's email: "Simulation with AC source and resistive terminations"
- Lynne: Hot button is DC operating point
- "Overall correctness in frequency domain" looks for resonances
- "Correct step response and ramp response in time domain"
- Mike: The end user can't make these checks
- Lynne: They can see if it simulates
- Lynne's email: "Repeat with a reactive load?"
- Lynne: This is a diagnostic if the others don't pass
- Lynne's email: "Comparison of both frequency and time domain simulation to
test data"
- Lynne: This is against bench test data
- Lynne: Should test data be included, like Golden waveforms?
- Bob: That might belong in a separate file
- Mike: There has already been concern about the potential number and size
Mike showed Lynne's file Multilingual.txt
- Lynne's email: "IBIS file call calls model file in same directory"
- Lynne: There should be no slashes
- Lynne's email: "IBIS language call matches model file's language"
- Lynne: This might have to be a manual check
- Lynne's email: "Parameters passed to model file are accepted by (used in)
model file"
- Mike: The opposite check might be good too
- Bob: We currently don't look inside the external language files
- Lynne's email: "Parsers available for SPICE, HSPICE, *-AMS?"
- Mike: Do people make IBIS files declaring HSPICE?
- Lynne: Yes
- Mike: That is non-compliant
- Bob: Berkeley SPICE is not truly useful here
- Each company supports it to the extent they can
- Lynne: No company has implemented the entire AMS spec
- Bob: Multilingual did not really take off
- They took it as a starting point and added their own parameters
- The files will fail IBISCHK
- Lynne: The SPICE files should be checked somehow
- Lynne's email: "Port/Interconnect mapping to physical comopnent or structure"
- Mike: Same as with TSCHK
- Lynne's email: "AMI information used, if provided"
- Bob: This is completely separate from Multilingual
- AMI is having it's own troubles right now
- Lynne's email: "Parameters passed with correct names and resonable values"
- Mike: This is a datasheet check
- Lynne: Tools might recognize the wrong language spec and still do the right
thing
- Lynne's email: "Differential checks (such as, polarity same for [model],
[component] and [diff pin])"
- Mike: Does IBIS Polarity matter?
- It seems no EDA tool needs to use it
- Lynne: Polarity has to be right for diff pins
- It matters for external models
- Lynne's email: "Simulation with any driver and/or resistive load, as
appropriate"
- Lynne: Trying to get a DC operating point can reveal many problems
- Also correct response in time domain, if active
- Correct response in frequency domain, if passive
- Lynne: We can at least do a sanity check
- Lynne's email: "Extend comparison if model includes additional effects"
- For example, thermal effects
- Lynne: This is just to get the conversation started
- Mike: We have to decide what to do next
- One idea is to update the Accuracy Handbook
- Unfortunately Roy and David are no longer able to help
- We could also file parser bugs to implement IQ checks
Moshiul: Should we update our checklist spreadsheet?
- Mike: We can look at that in the next meeting
Moshiul: Are there any order requirements for M, S, X, G?
- Mike: None
Meeting ended at 12:08 PM Eastern Time.
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