[ibis-quality] Minutes from four ibis-quality meetings
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-quality@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:02:21 -0500
Minutes from four ibis-quality meetings are attached. Reminder: there is
no ibis-quality meeting this Tuesday.
Mike
Minutes, IBIS Quality Committee
16 March 2010
11-12 AM EST (8-9 AM PST)
ROLL CALL
Adam Tambone
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
Barry Katz, SiSoft
Benny Lazer
Benjamin P Silva
Bob Cox, Micron
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brian Arsenault
David Banas, Xilinx
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia Siemens Networks
Eric Brock
Guan Tao, Huawei Technologies
Gregory R Edlund
Hazem Hegazy
Huang Chunxing, Huawei Technologies
John Figueroa
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
Katja Koller, Nokia Siemens Networks
Kevin Fisher
Kim Helliwell, LSI Logic
Lance Wang, IOMethodology
Lijun, Huawei
Lynne Green, Green Streak Programs
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Mayer, SiSoft
* Moshiul Haque, Micron Technology
Muniswarareddy Vorugu, ARM Ltd
Pavani Jella, TI
Peter LaFlamme
Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Radovan Vuletic, Qimonda
Robert Haller, Enterasys
Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design & Communications
Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics
Tim Coyle, Signal Consulting Group
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Kazuyoshi Shoji, Hitachi
Sadahiro Nonoyama
Everyone in attendance marked by *
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-----------------------MINUTES ---------------------------
Mike LaBonte conducted the meeting.
Call for opens and patent disclosures:
- No one declared a patent.
- Mike: The agenda email had line wrap issues
AR Review:
- Bob consider creating ibis/quail directory and Perl script
- This is not a high priority
- The directory quail_wip exists, the first QUAIL has been uploaded
- It is not linked to the main page yet
- We may change our minds
- This process is not for the Open Forum until we have a new IQ release
New items:
Discussion of IBIS web pages (off-topic):
- Bob: There are lingering issues and we need to resolve them soon
- eigroup.org pages are a problem
- Some changes made on eda.org are having trouble too
- Moshiul: Links are broken, the top page links to itself
- Bob: We need to have everything in subdirectories with strict ownership
- Bob: We should make sure that all admin accounts have redundant coverage
- Mike: On eda.org we have the 'ibis' group permission
- But some files lack it
- Bob: We need double coverage on freelists.org
Develop outline for IBIS Correlation document:
- Mike: Unable to find outline document created with Pavani's help
- Will keep looking
Mike showed the quail_wip directory created by Bob:
- It has only the QUAIL_2.0-1.txt file, no HTML
- Bob: It is not listed in directory.html
- We may put in structure similar to the BIRD or BUG structure
Agenda for next week:
- Bob: David Banas' version of FSV is perfectly valid
- It should be included
- A good model can show bad results
- Moshiul: Can send some some ideas
- Mike: Does the NSN IBIS website have correlation info?
- Eckhard: No
Next meeting will be Mar 23
Meeting ended at 12:05 PM Eastern Time.
Minutes, IBIS Quality Committee
23 March 2010
11-12 AM EST (8-9 AM PST)
ROLL CALL
Adam Tambone
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
Barry Katz, SiSoft
Benny Lazer
Benjamin P Silva
Bob Cox, Micron
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brian Arsenault
David Banas, Xilinx
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia Siemens Networks
Eric Brock
Guan Tao, Huawei Technologies
Gregory R Edlund
Hazem Hegazy
Huang Chunxing, Huawei Technologies
John Figueroa
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
Katja Koller, Nokia Siemens Networks
Kevin Fisher
Kim Helliwell, LSI Logic
* Lance Wang, IOMethodology
Lijun, Huawei
Lynne Green, Green Streak Programs
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Mayer, SiSoft
* Moshiul Haque, Micron Technology
Muniswarareddy Vorugu, ARM Ltd
Pavani Jella, TI
Peter LaFlamme
Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Radovan Vuletic, Qimonda
Robert Haller, Enterasys
Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design & Communications
Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics
Tim Coyle, Signal Consulting Group
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Kazuyoshi Shoji, Hitachi
Sadahiro Nonoyama
Everyone in attendance marked by *
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-----------------------MINUTES ---------------------------
Mike LaBonte conducted the meeting.
Call for opens and IBIS related patent disclosures:
- Bob: The role of this committee is to produce specifications for approval
- The Open Forum must approve to be official IBIS
- They are unlikely to become ANSI standards
- Not sure if the cookbook and handbook are official
- Mike: The outline document created with Pavani's help has been found
- No one declared a patent.
AR Review:
- None
New items:
Mike showed previous documents related to correlation:
- David's FSV paper
- Mike: It has 2 voltage and time domains
- Lance: For Vol/Voh it should compare what IBIS got against SPICE
- It overlooks the shape of the waveform near the switching
- Bruce Archambault showed us a method that looks at the whole wave
- Mike: There may be a place for both methods
- Moshiul: It still gives an idea
Mike showed Guan Tao's Measurement Correlation presentation:
- Lance: They check real board measurements against IBIS
- If it correlates the IBIS model becomes golden
- Mike: This tests far more than the IBIS model
- Page 10:
- Mike: This is similar to David's recommendations
- Moshiul: What is "High level valid pulse?"
- Mike: That may be the time above Vih
- That is a good test
- Page 9:
- Moshiul: There are places where the waveform differences are large
- But the correlation by what they measure still is good
- This is like an envelope metric
- Mike showed the IBIS Correlation outline:
- Mike added F/V/T domains for FSV
- Mike: Driver I/V strength may not be important
- Moshiul: We check this frequently
- We compare against the datasheet if it has it
- Mike: ODT is important
- Moshiul: We mostly check the ODT strength at Vtt
- Checking the whole range would be good
- Mike: Do we need to correlate clamp I/V curves?
- Eckhard: Clamps need to be accurate for PCI bus
- Mike: Receiver Output correlation might be going too far
- Moshiul: agree
- Mike: We should be able to describe most fixtures with [Test Load]
- If not, maybe a BIRD is needed to extend [Test Load]
- Moshiul: Sometimes test boards are used
- [Test Load] may not be enough
- Mike: EMD will be worked on this year
- Moshiul: Will that replace ICM?
- Bob: The ATM group's first priority is AMI
AR: Mike post updated outline of IBIS Correlation Handbook
Next meeting will be Mar 30
Meeting ended at 12:20 PM Eastern Time.
Minutes, IBIS Quality Committee
30 March 2010
11-12 AM EST (8-9 AM PST)
ROLL CALL
Adam Tambone
* Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
Barry Katz, SiSoft
Benny Lazer
Benjamin P Silva
Bob Cox, Micron
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brian Arsenault
David Banas, Xilinx
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia Siemens Networks
Eric Brock
Guan Tao, Huawei Technologies
Gregory R Edlund
Hazem Hegazy
Huang Chunxing, Huawei Technologies
John Figueroa
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
Katja Koller, Nokia Siemens Networks
Kevin Fisher
Kim Helliwell, LSI Logic
Lance Wang, IOMethodology
Lijun, Huawei
Lynne Green, Green Streak Programs
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Mayer, SiSoft
* Moshiul Haque, Micron Technology
Muniswarareddy Vorugu, ARM Ltd
Pavani Jella, TI
Peter LaFlamme
Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Radovan Vuletic, Qimonda
Robert Haller, Enterasys
Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design & Communications
Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics
Tim Coyle, Signal Consulting Group
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Kazuyoshi Shoji, Hitachi
Sadahiro Nonoyama
Everyone in attendance marked by *
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-----------------------MINUTES ---------------------------
Mike LaBonte conducted the meeting.
Call for opens and IBIS related patent disclosures:
- No one declared a patent.
AR Review:
- Mike post outline
- Done, but no announcement
New items:
Bob showed the IBIS Correlation Outline and made updates:
- Mike: Does any part of this not make sense?
- Anders: Why is there not a Simulation section?
- Mike changed Measurement to "Measurement and Simulation"
- Anders: The correlation has to check the same node on both sides
- Moshiul: The correlation setup belongs in section 3
- Anders: Why do we have Receiver Output correlation?
- We deleted that
- Anders: Input correlation is not that same as others
- Mike: Is die capacitance comparison really correlation?
- Moshiul: This is effective capacitance as seen at the pin
- Anders: What will be our measurement points for that?
- Mike: Maybe we could drop Effective Capacitance correlation
- Anders and Moshiul wanted to keep it
Mike: Should correlation be against actual data in an IBIS file?
- Maybe it should always be against IBIS simulation, not IBIS data
- Moshiul: Some IBIS data should be checked directly
- Mike: I/V curves are extracted and recombined by simulators
- Doing that and checking correlation could be worthwhile
- Anders: This can be simulator dependent
- What is the scope of this?
- Anders: We should correlate the IBIS data, not simulators
- Bob: We should not make it a big project
- The IBIS model is not the only variable
- Measuring it through parasitics complicates things
- Mike:
- There are two parts:
- What to correlate
- How to measure correlation
- We should focus on the latter
Bob: We should keep the input section
- The effect of inputs on reflection is significant
Anders: Who would be using this document?
- Mike: IC vendors
- Moshiul: Mostly
- Mike: Maybe our document should have 2 sections:
- sim-sim correlation
- sim-data correlation
AR: Bob send updated IBIS Correlation outline to Mike
AR: Mike post updated IBIS Correlation outline to IQ web
Next meeting will be Apr 12
Meeting ended at 12:14 PM Eastern Time.
Minutes, IBIS Quality Committee
06 April 2010
11-12 AM EST (8-9 AM PST)
ROLL CALL
Adam Tambone
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
Barry Katz, SiSoft
Benny Lazer
Benjamin P Silva
Bob Cox, Micron
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brian Arsenault
David Banas, Xilinx
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia Siemens Networks
Eric Brock
Guan Tao, Huawei Technologies
Gregory R Edlund
Hazem Hegazy
Huang Chunxing, Huawei Technologies
John Figueroa
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
Katja Koller, Nokia Siemens Networks
Kevin Fisher
Kim Helliwell, LSI Logic
* Lance Wang, IOMethodology
Lijun, Huawei
Lynne Green, Green Streak Programs
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Mayer, SiSoft
Moshiul Haque, Micron Technology
Muniswarareddy Vorugu, ARM Ltd
Pavani Jella, TI
Peter LaFlamme
Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Radovan Vuletic, Qimonda
Robert Haller, Enterasys
Roy Leventhal, Leventhal Design & Communications
Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics
Tim Coyle, Signal Consulting Group
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Tom Dagostino, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Kazuyoshi Shoji, Hitachi
Sadahiro Nonoyama
Everyone in attendance marked by *
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-----------------------MINUTES ---------------------------
Mike LaBonte conducted the meeting.
Call for opens and IBIS related patent disclosures:
- No one declared a patent.
- Eckhard mentioned an email from Colin Warwick about crowd-sourcing
- Lance: It will not work
- Companies will not assign people to update the models
- Mike: Companies want us going to their web page
- Bob: We should not take up this project
- If someone else does it that's fine
- Eckhard: It appeared only on IBIS
AR Review:
- Bob send updated IBIS Correlation outline to Mike
- Done
- Mike post updated IBIS Correlation outline to IQ web
- Done
New items:
Eckhard: Should we have differential input correlation?
- Mike: Do we want to check IBIS data against the data it was extracted from?
- Lance: Accuracy goes down when a different common mode voltage is used
- Mike: The test we correlate to should be "real world"
- Lance: Bob mentioned the problem of non-linear loads some time ago
- Mike: Moshiul said that he likes checking ODT
- Eckhard: Moshiul was talking about driver I/V
Mike: What do we want for top level organization?
- Our outline may have too much Measurement before Correlation
- Bob: This looks like the Accuracy Handbook
- Mike: The correlation should be against an IBIS simulation
- It should not be a double-check of the extraction
- Bob: FSV is the really new part here
- There are special issues with differential too
- Mike: We should discuss Correlation first
- Bob: Agree
Review of sections under Correlation
- Mike: Should FSV be split into 2 categories?
- Frequency domain FSV
- Voltage and time domain FSV
- Bob: FSV has an IEEE standard for the frequency domain approach
- Mike: The frequency domain approach is nice
- It is easy to do
- Eyeballing voltages usually only compares low frequency content
Mike: Correlation ii through v could be moved to Measurement and Simulation
- Section 3 could be seen as "How to Check Correlation"
- Section 4 could be "Where to check Correlation"
Mike: Comparing bench measured I/V against raw IBIS data is useful
- Bob: Moshiul does this with scaling
Next meeting will be Apr 13
Meeting ended at 12:15 PM Eastern Time.
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