Zenja, drink in Melbourne gladly accepted. :) I thank you for your email because it finally allows me to put it all into perspective. You say "Our time is 2003 and beyond.", and "If the source to this kit can be obtained, a fresh coat of paint can greatly hold the user base over to 2003". I say: 1) if you develop OpenBeOS separate from BeUnited, no one will give a damn in 2003, because all you have on something that should be a car and a driver and accessories and the motoring trade drooling over the whole lot, is an engine. Only an engine. 2) the fresh coat of paint isn't just "a patch here and a patch there". It goes way beyond development, and we all know that. We need professional applications, professional marketing, professionalism all over, because that's what makes a computing experience complete, not just an operating system. And even _IF_ you completely open the OS (as with Linux), it still won't go anywhere on its own, because the number of people working (properly) on it free of charge absolutely dwarfs in comparison to those who do this for a living. Let me reiterate: 1) if we get the source, we have to do as much as humanly possible in the shortest possible time to get an R6 out, glossed over or not. 2) It is absolutely paramount to understand that the momentum is __now__, not in 2003. Now Linux is still largely unusable for Joe Soap, and XP and Passport will do their own bit to annoy users. 3) Now people still use BeOS, know the name, and even commercial developers could be wooed (proper spelling now? ;) ) back. We have an historic chance to get in on this - if we play our cards right. And if we do, we should generate enough revenue to build a proper organization and to lure people away from their day job into full-time BeOS development. I have been involved in the GEOS since 1989. That was one helluva piece of software - still is. The entire OS and app suite in less than 15MB. Bar the Internet stuff it still is more than sufficent for 90% of the population's computer needs, but that technical superiority (in times where Windows was an utter piece of rubbish) didn't get them anywhere, because not only did their marketing suck, but they also didn't provide professional dev/debug tools, hence there was no "spark" that could have lit the flame in the commercial developer community. And when good old Clive Smith bought the licence to the code from Geoworks it was too late, because while he was haggling with Geoworks (or them with him), the user community (which was equally "loyal" as the BeOS community) was disintegrating, the little commercial support and goodwill that was still there vanishing, and the world moving on with 32bit OS, visual dev. tools, and __large scale commercial support and marketing__. Clive brought out NewDeal Office, and started to make big waves in the edu. sector in Africa and Canada, but it was too little, too late. GEOS was dead. Trust me, the very same will happen to BeOS if there is no bridge between 2001 (now) and 2003 (your "ETA"). I am / we are trying to create that bridge, but this means that we need all the support we can get, and that includes paying developers to do stuff not in their spare time, but full time. If we don't put egos aside and really work together, there will be no 2003 for anyone, least of all a BeOS -open or not- that shines as a car, not just an engine. We at BeUnited are working on the chassis, the driver, the wheels, the accessories manufacturers, and the motoring journalists, because if we cannot get them to stay with us __now__, they certainly won't be interested when you finally present your super engine in 2003. In one "sentence": we need to show everyone __right now__ that 1) BeOS is not dead 2) there is a viable market (IOW: there is money to be made!) 3) we support developers with tools, docu and marketing 4) we offer superior and highly functional software without the need for the user to upgrade his hardware, get frustrated over the workings of her software or worry about issues like privacy violations or viruses. 5) there is a perspective/roadmap for the future. All OpenBeOS is offering is a little bit of 1) and a hint of 5). No mention of 2), 3) and 4). Result: failure as a whole (1-5). BeUnited is working on 1) to 5), and whereas initially not all may be open or technically perfect, if we achieve what we have planned, we will have sufficient funds to invest into the removal of the modules that are clearly deficient. In the meantime they'll get fixed to the best of our ability. But then, in 2003 we'll have it all, while you still only have an engine. We will _definitely_ open as much as we possibly can, while still keeping a _tight reign_ on it (Linus does the same, BTW), because otherwise we cannot create the environment for the OS to become commercially viable, which translates into "getting more professional applications for it and more users interested in it". The chance to get more support for the BeOS is clearly __now__, not in 2003, and for that marketers need to go out and make a big noise, while being able to rely on the developers who are working behind the scenes on patching what can be patched and redesigning what has to be redesigned. They forfeit perfection for common sense and commercial viability. Then, in 2003, everybody will be happy, because we have the whole car, plus accessories, plus people dying to drive it, and not just an engine that people look at with amazement but discard right after that because the elements 2), 3), 4) and largely 5) too are clearly missing. And if I think about, as an engine on its own is of no use, 1) is missing too, which means BeOS (and by that I mean the entire operating environment/experience and not just the core Operating System) is dead. D.E.A.D. In summary: OpenBeOS === Death, because it doesn't take into account all the variables that play a role in the development, marketing and support of an operating environment. If you do OpenBeOS because you loathe non-open software or commercial software, then go ahead and enjoy what you (plural) are doing. But don't be surprised if you arrive in 2003 (which I genuinely doubt) and nobody cares. NOW, NOW, NOW, the TIME IS NOW. Let's put egos aside and work on something that can create the whole, not just an independent and open OS, when it is clearly our (BeUnited) aim to open as much as we possibly can. Uff.... :) Helmar