[gps-talkusers] e: Re: e: Re: Roundabouts

  • From: gavin atkins <gavin.atkins@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:38:53 +0100

Hi Charles
Thank you for that explanation, I see quite how difficult it is for you, I hadn't apreciated the factor of flyovers being in the equation I agree that the number of exits needed to pass before exiting the roundabout would be a good compromise.
I understand you are endeavouring to give us the best of both worlds (ie) excellent and safe pedestrian routes but also being able to use (our gps) whilst a passenger in a car.
You see Charles and Mike and the rest of the team, you've opened a box of delights and we want them all now!!! 

Gavin

Gavin Atkins,
tel: M 07702:051633,
Email: gavin.atkins@xxxxxxxxxx
Support Guide Dogs by using MagicTaxis FREE internet search engine and email. MagicTaxi gives 50 % of its advertising revenue to charity. For more information see wwwddguidedogsddorgdduk/magictaxi 


----- Original Message -----
From: Charles LaPierre <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date sent: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:47:40 -0700
Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: e: Re: Roundabouts



Hi Gavin,
Yeah after first hand experience with roundabouts in 
Australia last
week, I can appreciate the complexities of roundabouts a 
little
better. I don't think I will ever say you are turning 
Right from a
roundabout when entering the roundabout because the exit 
happens to
be on the right hand side when you first enter. What we 
will look at
is accurately figuring out the # of exits and say take 
the 3rd
exit. One might think this is easy, well it isn't, 
there could be
overpasses going on-top of the roundabout, now they 
don't intersect
but in a two-dimensional modal they do so you need to 
know what
elevation they are at. Then there are issues with 
separate on ramps
and off ramps to the roundabout, and combined on/off 
ramps to the
roundabout, and other things that intersect roundabouts 
all which
make accurately saying take the 3rd exit very complex, 
and is why it
hasn't been implemented yet. We have a good first crack 
at it with
the 4.02 release and we will continue to improve it 
moving
forward. You can always go into virtual mode and 
manually move along
the roundabout to get a feeling of the # of exits you 
must pass
before exiting, but keep in mind you will stop at 
non-exits as well.


Charles



At 03:02 PM 10/15/2007, you wrote:

Hi Charles
The big problem I come up against is that when I'm with 
my support
worker-driver approaching a roundabout, he needs to know 
which lane
on the roundabout to get into so he doesn't have to make 
a dangerous maneuver.
If your turning right at a roundabout for example on 
entering the
roundabout you would take the inside lane then prior to 
the exit
your taking you indicate left and move over to the 
outside lane, but
if you were taking the first left exit, you would stay 
in the outside lane.
At the moment the first instruction we're given to pass 
on to the
driver at the roundabout is "turn left" so the driver 
sets himself
ready to turn left then we say "oh no its actually 
right" and we're
not able to say how many exits to pass before the one we 
should

take, this makes my driver very uneasy.
I completely agree when traveling a pedestrian route the 
description
at a roundabout is perfect as it would only confuse us 
if we were
told all about the various exits and sending us the 
shortest way is
fine, I wonder why the (Tom-Tom) gps system can do this, 
it would be

really helpful if this were added in the future.



Regards Gavin



Gavin Atkins,
tel: M 07702:051633,
Email: gavin.atkins@xxxxxxxxxx
Support Guide Dogs by using MagicTaxis FREE internet 
search engine

and email.
MagicTaxi gives 50 % of its advertising revenue to 
charity.
For more information see 
wwwddguidedogsddorgdduk/magictaxi


----- Original Message -----
From: Charles LaPierre <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: gps-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:47:19 -0700
Subject: [gps-talkusers] Re: Roundabouts



Hi Peter and all,



I am assuming from your description you have 4.02 so

this may help

things a little as to the two messages you hear when

entering and

exiting the roundabout.



Think of it this way, when you enter the roundabout you

can either go

clockwise (i.e.  Left) or counterclockwise (i.e.

Right).  For Vehicle

Routes this will always be the same depending on the

country you are

in and if you drive on the right or left side of the

road.  But for a

pedestrian route this can change depending on which way

is shorter

around the roundabout.



So that is the first part of the message, and since the

same routine

is used for vehicles or pedestrian routes this is why

you hear either

turn left/right onto the roundabout.  Now exiting the

roundabout has

been improved a lot in 4.02.  I know its not perfect but

its a good

start.  It will tell you either turn left or right

exiting roundabout

at the point you exit.  It has nothing to do where that

exit is when

you are about to enter the roundabout, but rather what

you will be

doing once you physically get to that exit, i.e.  will

you be turning

left or right to get off the roundabout.  Think of a

roundabout like

any other road you want to turn off of, Sendero GPS

treats

roundabouts like any other road, once you get to the

"intersection"

or in this case roundabout exit which way are you

turning.  We also

tell you the direction you will be headed once you exit

the

roundabout so that should help if a street crosses the

roundabout you

will know if you should be exiting on that street North

or wait until

you are heading south.



Being down here in New Zealand and Australia I am

getting a lot of

practice with roundabouts and how people describe

exiting roundabouts

which is a little confusing to me to be honest.



I do like the idea of just numbering the exits and using

that to help

navigate the roundabout exit, but I also have to be

carful the same

will work for pedestrians when you travel the roundabout

against

traffic because it is shorter.  (I.e.  why force the

pedestrian to

follow traffic and make them cross multiple exits when

you could go

the opposite direction and maybe not even have to cross

any.)



Hope this helps clarify what the system is currently

doing, and

future improvements will be made to help make this more

intuitive.



Charles currently from New Zealand



At 09:13 AM 10/13/2007, you wrote:

Hi All,



I'm new to Braillenote GPS and the list, so please

forgive me if

this has been covered before.  I'm migrating from

Trekker

and  Wayfinder, and in most respects, I'm finding

Sendero GPS an

absolute joy, with so much power and flexibility

compared with the

others.  However, I'm having one problem, relating to

navigation of

roundabouts.    I think in the US you call these traffic

circles,

but here in the UK  they are everywhere, and it's rare

to find a

journey without many of them.



The way that  Sendero GPS gives instructions seems

confusing.   For

example, at a roundabout where you are actually turning

right, it

will tell you to turn left onto the roundabout, and then

turn left

to exit the roundabout.   It is similar with clockface
instructions.   It will say to turn ten o'clock on the

roundabout

and then exit nine o'clock.



What we need is a global instruction that gives you the

direction of

the road you are taking  relative to the road you were

on.  For

example,  Wayfinder would say "turn right at the

roundabout onto X

street", or "take the third exit onto X street" counting

exits clockwise.



It sounds a llitle complicated when you try to explain

it, but it is

a real problem when navigating vehicle routes in

particular.   A

wwork-around seems to be to use the compass directions,

but this

needs quite a lot of thought and ssometimes there isn't

enough time or clarity.



Am I missing something, or could this be a suggested

improvement?



Any thoughts welcome.



Best,



Peter




--



*******



Peter Bosher,
Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.soundlinks.com/
Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797
Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146
snail://
SoundLinks Limited,
43 Broadlands Avenue,
Chesham,
Bucks.
HP5 1AL
England.





Charles M.  La Pierre CTO
Sendero Group, LLC



Lat.  37 15' 25" N  Lon: 121 53' 04" W





Charles M.  La Pierre CTO
Sendero Group, LLC



Lat.  37 15' 25" N  Lon: 121 53' 04" W

Other related posts:

  • » [gps-talkusers] e: Re: e: Re: Roundabouts
  1. Home
  2. gps-talkusers
  3. Archive
  4. 10-2007