Sorry, I got my forces back to front in this diagram.. The bottom side is not cutting and the upper side is doing double , therefore the net force is upwards in this diagram. Phil Consider that if the wheel was spinning with the axel horizontal N-S on the equator, as per the diagram in the anticlockwise direction, then the wheel should experience more force up than towards the ground.. an unbalanced wheel upwards? Of course I'm tangling myself in two different reference frames. look at it from the heliocentric theory view. Something tells me we been here done this before.. I been wasting your time.. and its morning too . Back to school ..I'll come back tomorrow. by-by