Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

  • From: "Johnson, Alex" <alexander.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 12:30:30 -0600

It's true. Message Logger is part of the I/A Series Tools Suite. The part 
number is Q0301JL. The list price in the US for the suite is about $5200 for 
the suite.

We can ship it today with preliminary documents and I'm happy to provide those 
documents (PSS and B0) on request especially so if you send back comments 
because they are out for review and the more reviewers the better.

It should work with any USB to Serial converter. We bought ours from our Office 
Depot catalog and it's about as generic as you can find.

Best,

Alex

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Alex Johnson | Schneider Electric | Invensys | United States | System 
Architect, Next Generation Systems
Phone: +1 713 329 8472 | Fax: +1 713 329 1700
Email: alexander.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | Site: 
www.schneider-electric.com | Address: 10900 Equity Drive, 77041 Houston, TX, 
United States

*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Kinsinger, Matthew R
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:00 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

It appears they have added a "message logger" to the "IA Series Tools Suite" 
which will allow a serial output of all alarm type messages. Available now or 
very soon (few months). See below

"""The Message Logger utility allows real-time capture of Process Messages 
(Alarms and Sequence), System Monitor messages, and Operator Action Journal 
messages - sent by the APRINT message system, which can be forwarded to a 
serial port or logged to ASCII files for later use with the Message Logger 
reporting feature."""

Matt Kinsinger
mkinsinger@xxxxxxx
330-825-1208 office
330-472-1454 ppg cell

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Pulas, Philip
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:36 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

Scott,

I understand that it would work best if SysMon sees it online.  However, there 
is no "approved" USB-to-Serial converter and I sure do not have time to buy a 
bunch of different brands of converters and test each one out.  We thought we 
had one working, then it just stopped a few months later.

It's too bad that the serial printer was eliminated in I/A v8.8+.  I get the 
impression from the list that there are still a lot of us out there that use 
the "fake" serial printer to collect alarms, OAJ's, and smon logs.  The only 
upgrade path I'm aware of is going to a virtual printer, but that requires 
reprogramming of the software collecting the data (at least in our case).  Any 
possibility a PER would be approved to resurrect the serial printer in I/A 
v8.8+?

Thanks,
Philip Pulas
Lead Engineer, Process Systems
Tesoro Golden Eagle Refinery
Ph: (925) 372-3043
Email: philip.g.pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Landry, Scott
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 2:53 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8



   BTW,

    Device Monitor works in conjunction with system monitor to report the 
health of the Group Devices (WPs and Printers)

    If System Monitor thinks that the printer (USB to Serial) is red than you 
should find a USB to Serial converter (and what it gets connected to)
    that will report to System Monitor that it is online.  If the Group Device 
is offline (for whatever reason) the alarm alert subsystem
    will reroute the message to the configured backup device (system 
definition) or if no backup device is configured will stop the messages
    from going to the device until it is back on line.  This is the way it is 
supposed to work, with the use of a USB to Serial converter you are
    throwing Device Monitor a curve ball.


    Regards,


    Scott

________________________________________
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Landry, Scott [Scott.Landry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 4:22 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

   FYI,

   Device Monitor was changed  a bit to recognize which software level it runs 
on.

   V9.1
   V9.0
   V8.8
   V8.7
   V8.6
   V8.5
   etc. etc. etc
   V7.x
   V6.x

   The current device monitor master will always default to the workstation(s) 
with the highest level.
   It will never go to V7.x or V6.x as long as there is a V8.x/V9.x workstation 
available.

   Also the cs_devmon.cfg file on pre V8.8 workstations will not have any of 
the V8.8/V9.0/V9.1 contained in it.
   The cs_devmon.cfg file on V8.8/V9.0/V9.1 will have all the V8.8/V9.0/V9.1 
workstations plus any V7.x and V6.x workstations.


   Regards,


   Scott

________________________________________
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Pulas, Philip [Philip.G.Pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 11:58 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

Matt,

In our case, CP alarms/messages and OAJ's stopped, but SMON messages are 
actually going to the backup printer defined in SysDef.  We only have test 
block alarms going to this particular printer, so that's ok.  In our normal 
case of paperless printers in I/A v8.2-v8.4.4, any printer recognized as 
offline by SysMgr or DevMon (might be DevMon that does this) would 
automatically have its messages rerouted to our backup printer.  Since the v8.8 
printer isn't behaving normally, the messages aren't getting forwarded to the 
backup printer.

Thanks,
Philip Pulas
Lead Engineer, Process Systems
Tesoro Golden Eagle Refinery

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Kinsinger, Matthew R
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:51 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

What about OAJ's and SMON messages? Are those supposed to stop like the CP's?

Matt Kinsinger
mkinsinger@xxxxxxx
330-825-1208 office
330-472-1454 ppg cell

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Terry Doucet
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:43 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8

Philip,

System Monitor (the graphic tool) uses a hardware connection to verify a 
printer is connected so I am not surprised that the printer never shows online.


Device Monitor (no graphic tool) uses software queries to find if an alarm 
destination is alive.  For WP's and AW's the method is simple.  I am not sure 
how Device Monitor knows if a printer is connected or not.  But if any device 
is listed in the refreshed, cs_dm.current (text) file as not OK, then the CP's 
are not supposed to broadcast any process alarm to that device.


Terry

> From: Philip.G.Pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:56:21 +0000
>
> Terry,
>
> After upgrading the AW to I/A v8.8, "Committing an AW early on" referred to 
> the first few Commits I did.  After the first Commit, I found reinstalling 
> the USB driver got the messages collecting again.  So I started to do it 
> after each Commit.  Well, that only lasted about four months.  Reinstalling 
> the driver after all of the subsequent Commits since then no longer gets the 
> message collection going again.
>
> FYI, I have been properly Committing the AW.  And, as Matt pointed out, the 
> printer never shows it being online, so Device Monitor has never seen it 
> working.  That was exactly what we noticed here: printer offline and Device 
> Monitor not seeing the printer, but messages  being collected.  Now, we still 
> have printer offline and Device Monitor not seeing the printer, and messages 
> no longer being collected.
>
> Thanks,
> Philip Pulas
> Lead Engineer, Process Systems
> Tesoro Golden Eagle Refinery
> Ph: (925) 372-3043
> Email: philip.g.pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Doucet
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 8:47 AM
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by  "Committing an AW early on"   means. The 
> process of System Definition and Commit requires a specific sequence of 
> events that must be followed exactly.   You might end up with a system with 
> two different Device Monitor configurations and if the wrong station takes 
> over, all your alarm messages will stop.
>
> There is a procedure to find the station which currently runs Device Monitor. 
> There must only be one but each WP and AW on your system has the potential to 
> run the current Device Monitor.   Once you locate that station you query it 
> to find what it thinks are live devices.  Then you can force it to rebuild 
> its list and dump the current list.
>
> There are lots of instructions archived on this Freelist that you can search 
> to find the various steps.
>
>
> Terry
>
> > From: Philip.G.Pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 15:27:33 +0000
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > My problem relating to Committing an AW early on always caused all messages 
> > to stop being sent.  And, about the end of July, all messages stopped 
> > completely.  Reinstalling the driver, committing the AW and reinstalling 
> > the driver, etc., do not work anymore.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Philip Pulas
> > Lead Engineer, Process Systems
> > Tesoro Golden Eagle Refinery
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kinsinger,
> > Matthew R
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 6:07 AM
> > To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> >
> > The destination always shows failed, and the messages keep coming. The only 
> > problem is spooling/delay at this point.
> >
> > Matt Kinsinger
> > mkinsinger@xxxxxxx
> > 330-825-1208 office
> > 330-472-1454 ppg cell
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Doucet
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 8:37 AM
> > To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> >
> > Remember that Device Monitor has to see the printer destination as good or 
> > the CP's will be instructed to stop sending alarm messages to that specific 
> > device (real or virtual).
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: mkinsinger@xxxxxxx
> > > To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> > > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:25:02 +0000
> > >
> > > Thank again for this help. We have been trying to do this the last few 
> > > months, and seemed to have had it working. I did not remember your note 
> > > at the bottom about possibly having to re-install the driver after a 
> > > commit. Did your printer stop working completely when this happened, or 
> > > just get sporadic? This works great for some time, but then messages get 
> > > delayed or behind. One time they stopped completely and I had to reboot. 
> > > We have played with spooling settings and such, but they don't seem to 
> > > help. Occasionally the IA alarm print job gets stuck spooling and never 
> > > finishes, just holds a few messages back until something else comes in, 
> > > and it sends the old message then holds the new. Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Matt Kinsinger
> > > mkinsinger@xxxxxxx
> > > 330-825-1208 office
> > > 330-472-1454 ppg cell
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pulas, Philip
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 11:58 AM
> > > To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: Re: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> > >
> > > Foxray is definitely a good solution for this, but is just missing 
> > > real-time emailing of alarms.
> > >
> > > We also use the serial port connection for LogMate and found that at v8.8:
> > >   1. You need to change the old printer connection in SysDef to a USB 
> > > printer.
> > >   2. Purchase a USB to Serial converter.
> > >   3. Install the driver for the converter (follow instructions on whether 
> > > the converter needs to be plugged in or not, can't recall now).
> > >   4. Connect your serial device.
> > >   5. Boot into I/A.
> > >   6. Messages get collected again.
> > >
> > > One note is that the new USB printer always shows offline in SysMgr and 
> > > SMDH, but it does work.  I happen to be using the Aluratek USB to Serial 
> > > Adapter.  One thing I have found is that you may have reinstall the 
> > > driver after every Commit of the AW.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Philip Pulas
> > > Lead Engineer, Process Systems
> > > Tesoro Golden Eagle Refinery
> > > Ph: (925) 372-3043
> > > Email: philip.g.pulas@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kinsinger,
> > > Matthew R
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 8:17 AM
> > > To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: [foxboro] paperless printer at V8.8
> > >
> > > We have had paperless printers for years using a serial printer
> > > going to another windows box logging all the traffic with a
> > > program called Visual Alert. It has always worked great for us. We
> > > send alarms, system messages, OAJ's, Sequence code messages, etc
> > > all to this one place. The operators in particular like it which
> > > is why I have been asked to keep it. The problem is there are no
> > > serial printers at V8.8 and we have not found a solution. I have
> > > asked around, and Foxboro as well as PAS said they could do it,
> > > but have not been able to follow through with a proposed solution.
> > > I really want to get rid of my COM10's (which will pretty much
> > > allow me to get rid of my nodebus all
> > > together) and upgrade all of these units to a V8.8 compatible
> > > solution. I'm ready to spend the money, but no one seems to want
> > > to do it. Anyone know of a solution that will duplicate the "destination"
> > > functionality (Alarm destination, MSG group, OAJ, system messages,
> > > etc) ? I'm ready to spend the money,
> >  ju
> > >    st need someone with a working solution willing to do the work.
> > > Matthew Kinsinger
> > > Process Control Engineer
> > > PPG Industries
> > > Barberton, OH
> > > Office. 330-825-1208
> > > PPG Cell. 330-472-1454
> > > Fax. 330-825-8492
> > > mkinsinger@xxxxxxx<mailto:mkinsinger@xxxxxxx>
> > > [ppg-logo-corp-signature]


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