[etni] Re: a grammar question
- From: "Paz Maryanka" <pmaryanka@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Leo.Selivan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:41:58 +0200
In the example of: e.g. "I told you so!" rather than "I've told you so!",
there is a difference. The first refers to "I told you so" (then) - no
reference to the present. The second "I've told you so" connects us to the
present and the unspoken extension would be something like ""and therefore I
am right" or "and here is the evidence" both of which deal with the present
situation.
Paz
-----Original Message-----
From: etni-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:etni-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Leo.Selivan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2012 7:22 PM
To: bnirenberg@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [etni] Re: a grammar question
Didn't think my reply would provoke such a debate :-) Anyhow, as I said I
would use the Past Simple and merely remarked that there are many cases
where both would be possible particularly in spoken English.
Also, we often use the Past Simple even if there is a clear connection to
the present, e.g. "I told you so!" rather than "I've told you so!".
If you're interested, I blogged about spoken language and its own grammar
sometime ago:
http://leoxicon.blogspot.com/2011/11/spoken-grammar.html
LEO
________________________________
From: Bari Nirenberg [mailto:bnirenberg@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 11 January 2012 18:40
To: Selivan, Leo (Israel)
Cc: etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [etni] a grammar question
I disagree -- I don't think the present perfect would be correct here.
I read the article (on Tuesday) and then I put it on my desk. I'm sure I
put it on my desk, but it's not there now. The present perfect should show
some kind of connection to the present, but if the article isn't on my desk
now, then the act of putting it there some time in the past is not relevant
to the present. The "I'm sure" here is irrelevant to the tense of the verb
"put". It's clearer in this sentence: "I'm sure I put the article on my
desk yesterday, but it's not there today."
Bari
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 16:05, <Leo.Selivan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I would use the Simple Past but if someone used the Present Perfect it would
not be considered a mistake. There are many cases when either can be used
and attempts to find cut and dried rules would often be futile.
Where does this come from anyway?
LEO
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ETNI list <etni.list@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 14:00:40 +0200
Subject: [etni] Fwd: a grammar question
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lura dosa <luradsa@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: a grammar question
Hello..
I have a question about the Present Perfect and I hope someone will help me.
I know that when the time of the past action is specified, the Past Simple
is used. But what about this:
" On Tuesday, I _____________ (read) an article which I _____________
(think) would be suitable for my biology paper. I'm sure I _______________
(put) the article on my desk. I ______________ for it all over the house but
____________ it yet."
Should 3 be Present Perfect or Past Simple? I know from the context that the
putting happened on Tuesday, but also the effect "I'm sure"
is present, so what to choose?
Thanks for your help:)
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The British Council is the United Kingdom's international organisation for
educational opportunities and cultural relations. We are a registered
charity; 209131 (England and Wales) SC037733 (Scotland). We create
international opportunities for the people of the UK and other countries and
build trust between them worldwide. We call this cultural relations.
This message is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have
received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it. The
British Council accepts no liability for loss or damage caused by software
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