Hi Ruthi We actually have set up some kind of an English teachers' forum. This forum has met on several occasions, put down in writing all the issues English teachers have to deal with without getting paid for -way beyond what's accepted as "normal" among teachers of other subjects-such as the insanity of English coordination, the modular tests, the projects etc..., and this forum has even met with Judy Steiner, who is, by the way, well aware of the problems in English teaching and -hopefully-willing to help us improve our conditions. But... as we well know by now, if the government doesn't take a strategic decision to start investing in education, nothing will really change. If people are interested in seeing this document, I will ask the head of this forum, Alumma Avron, if she can publish it on Etni. Sandra ----- Original Message ---- From: Ruthi <rsheffer@xxxxxxxxx> To: hassidim@xxxxxxxxx; Ask <ask@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, July 4, 2008 1:22:29 PM Subject: Re: [etni] 4-5 p catch Sandra you are dead right. That's why maybe we need a separate union for English teachers to protect our interests. The other subjects (with the possible exception of Math which is more objective- no essays to mark, no LD concessions except time) All these considerations put a burden on our time and energy. This was suggested on Etni and I think we should seriously think about it... Ruth On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Sandra Yosef-Hassidim <hassidim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi everyone. Re the 4-5 point dilemma. We have all been dealing with this issue somehow. At my school there is a clear policy of pushing students up to 5p. I teach at a very prestigious school and the students won't settle for less unless they're really weak and even those usually get their parents to exercize pressure on our management so they will be given the opportunity to "prove" themselves (even if their other grades all show failing grades) mamash up to the very day of the matkonet. The students are all too aware of the new opportunities the modular bagrut offers. They have safety nets all around them and they can try and retry without risking or paying anything. The sad result is that doing the bagrut in English has really become some kind of a roulette. The problem is that the flexiblity of the system has made everything very confusing to the student. And it has undermined the teacher's authority and his/her professional judgement. In fact, we teachers, are nowadays expected to teach under the humiliating conditions of the public school system (I trust I won't have to give any examples...)while offering the students the testing opportunities of an external/private school system. In my opinion, this is the worst aspect of the new bagrut. And it is wearing me out. What does this have to do with the 4-5 dilemma, you might ask. Well, I think that we English teachers have enough work on our plates. We should just be teaching and we shouldn't have to be bothered by questions such as university requirements or planning strategies how to make it possible for a student to try for F and G while at the same time preparing a magen for C and D, just in case... Because what we are actually doing here is providing an individual learning program for about 30% of our 40 pupils counting classes. Preparing extra magens means writing and marking extra tests , which we are not paid for-of course. But even worse is the fact that students know how the system works and they know they can try for the 5p in any case, so instead of working hard at a 4p level, proving themselves and then moving up to the 5p level (isn't that every teacher's dream?), they waste their energy on fighting placement decisions, stop working when they are forced to sit in a 4p group and keep trying to get into the 5p because anyway, they feel they won't lose anything by doing so;once they do E in yudalef, they can do C and D in winter and F and G in summer. We teachers know that most of these students won't live up to a 5p level-especially when for 2 years they have been planning strategies instead of actually working on their English-but sadly the students do not see it that way. Because they are misled by this half private system. That's why they keep telling their teachers "ma echpatlach she ashev be 5 ani tamid jahol lehashlim le 4". They have lost the sense of "first having to prove yourself"-they want it INSTANT-now, like a 5p kochav nolad! With minimum investment and maximum opportunities! And that's what the new bagrut has been teaching them. Real great education. Well I am not for it at all. I want to do what I am paid (?) for: teaching them at their current level and trying to get them to improve through hard work, so I can move them up to the next level. And I want ALL my 35 students to be at a similar level, taking the same tests, at the same moed until THEY have proven they can move up. And then I want them to move up to ANOTHER group, because I am fed up with splitting myself up into 4 levels of teaching. Is that too much to ask for? Sandra -- For people who like peace and quiet - a phoneless cord