[ebooktalk] Thomas Cromwell.
- From: "Elaine Harris \(Rivendell\)" <elaineharris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 22:29:43 +1000
Steve,
Hilary Mantel worked closely with a Cromwell scholar writing Wolf Hall; she
gives her full credit for research; I think what she is portraying is the
saying from, I can't remember where, "Cromwell would have been a better man
if he had served a better master", and, as implied in some of yesterday's
emails, his ruthlessness increases as Henry becomes more capricious.
Sad ending; not sure if I can face book three when it comes but I will.
Elaine
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steven Bingham
Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 6:21 PM
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Wolf Hall
Hello all
I too read Wolf Hall in braille and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think I
would have liked listening to it. I prefer to read long books in braille. I
find it easier to keep the characters in mind. I also like to be able to
reread any short passages if I don't think I've understood them properly. It
isn't so easy to do this with audible. I also like to be able to vary the
speed of reading so that I can almost skip the not so interesting parts and
take more complicated and detailed parts slowly. I have an electronic copy
of Bring Up The Bodies but I am waiting for the solid braille to arrive
before starting it.
I hadn't found any books sympathetic to Cromwell either. In C J Sampsom he
isn't quite the usual monster but he does come over as ruthless.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of CJ & AA MAY
Sent: 08 May 2013 19:15
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Wolf Hall
Hello June
So, you read them in Braille? Well done! Don't think I could have managed
that! I didn't know there is to be a sequal but will look forward to reading
it. Personally, I enjoyed her style of writing and also this is the first
sympathetic book I've ever read about Cromwell.
Alison
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Tar Barrels
Sent: 08 May 2013 18:42
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Wolf Hall
Trish, I really enjoyed both Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies, and looking
forward to the final volume. I thought she brought Cromwell to life, and
liked her writing style, though she was obviously more than a bit partial to
him. The second book saw this tempered a little, so I'm intrigued to see how
she will deal with his downfall. They are long books, and I was lucky enough
to have a sit down task lasting several hours, so managed to get really
stuck into each of them, and that helped. I didn't find it that confusing,
but dread the bracketed name in the final volume. But if you've given it a
good go, and tried another of hers, I'm wondering why you should feel the
need to persist with something you're obviously not enjoying.
June
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Trish Talbot
Sent: 08 May 2013 17:17
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Wolf Hall
I'm starting to wonder if one day I should try "Wolf Hall" again - one day,
but not yet. It must have some merit, because so many of my book reading
friends enjoyed it and it and it's sequel have achieved such aclaim, but I'm
afraid I abandonned it, finding it deadly dull and as dry as sawdust. It
seemed to go into so much minutiae with very little characterization.
Mantel said that in the sequel, as so many people had found it confusing in
"Wolf Hall" when she kept saying "He" without specifying, she had inserted
Cromwell in brackets after every "He" that apertained to him. What
brilliant writing style, (I don't think!)
We read "Beyond Black" by Hilary Mantel in our local reading group, one of
her earlier efforts. What a weird and depressing thing that was!
Trish.
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Elaine Harris
(Rivendell)
Sent: 07 May 2013 23:40
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Names, books and opinions.
I came to the Harry Potter phenomenon rather late and thought J. K. Rowling
was male until I heard her speak on "With Great Pleasure" when back in the
UK in 1998. A friend I saw later that day was also labouring under the same
misconception. I avoided the books initially because they were so popular!
(Don't ask, I don't know but it wasn't the first time.)
And, yes, Steve, the Bronte girls originally wrote under Acton, Curra and
Ellis Bell, though I don't know if they ever published under said names.
Books: Shell, I love "Wolf Hall" but not everyone does; Hilary Mantel is an
acquired taste. The trick for me was once I tumbled to the fact that almost
every time she says "He" she means her protagonist Thomas Cromwell, it fell
into place. Made much more sense. Also, many of his thoughts, (what John
Wyndham calls "Behind thinks" in "The Chrysalids") are in conversational
style but not in inverted commas; that too could be confusing.
Finally, (Sorry, have just read, for me, the overnight deliveries), I love
Alan Bennett's work without shame and suspect "The Uncommon Reader" was
written with tongue firmly placed in erudite cheek. Alan B majored in
history and would know that abdication is unlikely to feature on the Royal
menu. I first listened to him narrating it when tucked up in bed with raging
laryngitis; all the ending could produce was a squeak but took me totally by
surprise.
Sleep well clan! The wonder of this group is that we can't and won't all
enjoy the same books, or if we do, not for the same reasons. That's why
there are so many glorious reads!!
Elaine
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Trish Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 5:09 AM
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: What's in a name.
Interestingly enough, I believe that when she submitted the first Harry
Potter book to her publishers, Joanne Katherine Rowling was advised to use
her initials as boys wouldn't look at the book if it had a female author's
name on it. Even in this day and age, it's harder for girls! Ok, I know
about Jessica Stirling being a man.
Trish.
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steven Bingham
Sent: 07 May 2013 17:39
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rumer Godden and Noel Streatfield
I think I heard that it is a family name, maybe her mothers maiden name or
something like that. I always find it rather amusing that men and women
authors write under names of the opposite sex. I don't usually think that
much about whether a book is buy a man or a women and it would never make
any difference to weather I read it or not.
I am aware, of course, that at certain times women have had to use men's
names in order to even get their writing looked at. I believe this was true
for all of the Bronte sisters.
In recent years names seem to have become a lot less reliable. I mean that
no longer is John Smith a white English man as he would have been in the
1960s. I often read a name and make little effort to determine where the
person might come from for example I was rather surprised to discover that
Vidar Hjardeng, the guy who writes book reviews for Vision, the RNIB members
magazine, is of Norwegan extraction. Looking at the name carefully it's
fairly obvious but just hearing and never really looking at the spelling I
just assumed Asian probably and thought no more aboit it.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Elaine Harris (Rivendell)
Sent: 07 May 2013 11:21
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rumer Godden and Noel Streatfield
Yes, the first time I heard of Lionel the person mentioning the book said
She and I thought it was a mistake. Wonder why she chose Lionel.
Elaine
-----Original Message-----
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Clare Gailans
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 6:49 PM
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rumer Godden and Noel Streatfield
I didn't know Miles Franklin was a woman. And there's Lionel Shriver, birth
name Margaret, I believe. Clare
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elaine Harris (Rivendell)" <elaineharris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 9:25 AM
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rumer Godden and Noel Streatfield
>I have just discovered a Rumer Godden I hadn't heard about: "A Candle
>for St Jude". Could be another convent one but will let you know when
>I read it.
>
> Now this is where I play a game of Humiliations as apparently
> described in (I think) the first David Lodge Brummidge University
> novel. One I haven't read. (It is where a shoal of literary academics
> abase themselves by confessing to which great works they have not yet
> read; I believe there was even a "Hamlet" in there.)
> Anyway: snivel, squirm, WHIMPER, GROVEL ... I THOUGHT Noel Streatfield
> was a him!
>
> Well, you can't tell with gender neutral names, can you? Or I couldn't!
>
> In my own feeble defence, don't think I have read many though am sure
> we had some read to us at school and I read one concerning the Treet
> family about
> 12 or so years ago. Should have guessed really from the style of writing.
>
> Was she responsible for "Ballet Shoes?", (three adopted girls, two
> with theatrical ambitions!) and "White Boots", connected with ice-skating?
>
> Now I shall go on the hunt to see what I can find.
>
> Please forgive my embarrassing confessed Faux Pas. At least I know
> that George Elliott, Georges Sand, Miles Franklin and Henry Handel
> Richardson (last two Australian and not my favourites) are all women.
>
> Elaine
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Clare Gailans
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 12:16 AM
> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rumer Godden and Noel Streatfield
>
> I have an Episode of Sparrows lined up on my Stream, but feel I ought
> to read the Kashmir Shawl first. Noel Streatfeild: Well, I really
> prefer the straight family ones such as the Bell Family and Children
> of Primrose Lane, which I haven't come across since childhood. I have
> made several attempts to buy New Town, sequel to the Bell Family, in
> my very recent print book-collecting phase, well recent isn't quite
> the word as that implies it has stopped, whereas I am addicted. I
> think this book has become very hard to find, as I mainly buy from
> people who post on the Girlsown list, and several times I have been
> beaten to it. I didn't know about it as a child, which probably means
> it didn't make it to braille, but the Bells are a delightful family,
> based I expect on NS's own family. Her father was a vicar and
> eventually became a bishop. There are three volumes of fictionalised
> autobiography about them, a Vicarage Family, Beyond the Vicarage and
> Away from the Vicarage. To go back to her children's books, she was an
> actress in her youth and lots of these derive from this, being about
> various types of child prodigies. I haven't yet read many of her books
> for adults, though I have a number waiting for scanning. We have a
> text file of Saplings, a wartime one republished by Persephone, which
> I can highly recommend. Clare
>
>
>
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- » [ebooktalk] Thomas Cromwell. - Elaine Harris (Rivendell)
