Don't think I could have said it better. *smile* Right now, for a blind person that wants to do as much as possible with a DAW, it's either Sonar on Windows, or Pro Tools on a Mac. Other options are available, some at low cost or free, but most of them either are missing lots of features that are in the pro packages, or else the accessibility, while workable, isn't complete in all areas. It's also important to keep in mind that, while Pro Tools is accessible, the learning curve is far beyond Sonar. If you're planning to work in commercial facilities, then Pro Tools is a good way to go. If you're trying to record your own material, then you'll get further, faster, with Sonar. Sonar also will run on relatively inexpensive Windows PCs. A good starter Pro Tools system, with appropriately outfitted iMac, external gear (basic audio interface and control surface), and software will start around $4,000 - $5,000. More professional systems, with a Mac Pro, typically cost $7,000 and up. Of course Pro Tools HD systems, used by commercial facilities, can cost anywhere from $20,000 to over $100,000. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X! Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 1:15 PM To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Mac support for CakeTalking and Sonar In terms of results, you could accomplish the same thing with either program, which is record and make your music. The reason why pro tools is always talked about and well known is because you could say it is the industry standard for studios, schools and music professionals. But doesn't really mean much, unless you'll be interacting with other studios, then you would find a way to have projects be exchangeable between sonar and pt. The reason why pro tools became the standard was because it was by far the best recording software on the mac. The mac became the standard for video recording/editing, audio production, graphics design etc, because macs by nature and due to apple's limited and close production with their hardware vendors run smooth. In the apple world, Steve Jobs says what goes in what will be allowed and what won't. You see it with the IPhone, IPad, and virtually any apple product. Due to this limited production model, macs run smoothly. Unlike the pc's where you can have chipsets made by various manufacturers, components are made by various companies, the line for errors in a pc system is greater because you have a greater chance of getting 2 components in a system that don't work well together, or that will cause bottlenecks etc. This is the only reason that macs are prefered, and of yes there is some truth to the fact that they are more stable software wise, but that is in part due to the unix platform (something that we'll leave there in order to keep the post from getting too much into the computer science side of things), and because again, windows OS has to be written with various vendors and components in mind and so much other crap, as where the apple OS is written for that specific hardware and those specific components. Windows also has to deal with the legacy issue, where people expect their 10 year old printer to work with the new windows7. This is why a lot of code on windows has to be kept, despite it's aging conditions. On the mac, if the new OS doesn't work with your system or a certain program etc, you just don't upgrade the OS, or if you do upgrade, you lose that hardware or software and live without it. Those who are use to this way of things and apple's way are fine with it, they live with it and move on; Microsoft tries to move on and leave things behind and the world goes bolistic! Also remember that third parties (the companies who make your software and/or hardware) have to do their part and write what we know as drivers or patch updates or upgrades to keep things working. This is the main reason why things are the way they are in the computing world. It's a lot of myths that have been thrown out there, and that people just assume to be real or take as facts without doing the proper research. The fact is that you can produce equally good music on proTools or Sonar, or Cuase for that matter, hek why not even reaper, audacity or NTrack studio. You just need the tools to do it and learn your software in and out and upside down; get conftable in the environment you're going to be working in and take off! In the pc side of things, sonar for us is the best solution at the moment when it comes to accessibility; you have 2 accessibility packages that can give you excellent access to various versions and editions of Sonar. Some are also using Cubase, and depending on your needs other software is coming along that can be accessed by window eyes and/or jaws. From what i worked with and heard from others, pro tools on the pc is a definite no go, not accessible, and of course who knows when digidesign will get around to it; they place priority on the mac version because that's obviously where the meat and potatos is at. You could get a custom built DAW on the windows platform that will run smoothly and give you outstanding performance with sonar, and you can be just as efective as a producer who uses a mac and pro tools, assuming of course that you know what you're doing and have taken the time to learn sonar and suck the juice out of it! With a custom build you don't have to worry about issues with the system or bottlenecks or non-working equipment etc. We system builders spend hours testing, troubleshooting, configuring, optimizing, retesting, troubleshooting, purchasing different hardware, making diferent configurations etc, so that we can build the ultimate system; you don't have to worry about all that: putting the components together, installing delicate stuff like processors, working in the bios, risking screwing up the pc, working in the windows registry and with various command prompts etc, you just get the computer from us, turn it on, install whatever (if not already installed), and get to working! Pro tools on the mac should be coming out with a more accessible version that we hopefully can use, and apple should hopefully be getting an accessible version of logic if not already out, (Bryan Smart is the guy to ask on that front). Yes you can install windows on a separate partition of the intel macs and launch it on something like boot camp etc, not sure how well that'll work, i've never used it. I've seen it done and the system seems stable, but that wasn't dealing with audio work and/or heavy and intensive processing software like a daw. So you do have options, you just need to balance it all and see where you want to go with all of it. It's just not fair to say that 1 system is better than the other, they are close, it's more about the user experience. This is like the same old argument we had in music theory classes when i was in college, about which composition software was better, finale or sibelius. It was a never ending argument, and at the end both were equally as good, it all comes down to what you are use to using and what are you best on. HTH, D!J!X! ________________________________ From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chelsea Dye Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:19 PM To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Mac support for CakeTalking and Sonar So is Pro Tools to the Mac what Sonar is to the PC? So I could either use a Windows PC with Sonar, or a Mac with Pro Tools and get the same results? Just trying to figure all this out. I'd eventually need a DAW--Mac or PC--for a recording studeo, either my own or in a production studeo. Thanks, Chelsea ________________________________ From: Justin Kauflin <blindguy500@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: August 27, 2010 6:29 PM To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Mac support for CakeTalking and Sonar Chelsea, I believe that since Dancing Dots works mainly with Jaws and software that runs in the Windows environment, the Mac won't do you much good unless you are running Windows in Boot Camp on the Mac. This is actually what I'm doing now. I ended up getting a Mac because of the new accessibility features of Pro Tools and wanted to have the best of both worlds. If your not interested in messing with Pro Tools, and were looking for a dedicated work station, you might be better off getting a Windows machine running Jaws. Hope that helps some, Justin On Aug 27, 2010, at 3:00 PM, Chelsea Dye wrote: Hi list, I'm considering getting a Mac, and was wondering what support is available for Dancing Dots products. Also, can Braille displays such as the one that is part of the Pac Mate work with Macs? Thanks, Chelsea PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE! 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