[ddots-l] Re: HotSpot Clicker
- From: "William R. McCann" <BillList1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:34:21 -0500
Hi, Dan,
In a previous post, I described some of the differences between CT and
JSonar from my point of view as CakeTalking's distributor. Here I just want
to address one of your points about keystrokes:
I'll quote from your note and precede my comments with "DD":
You wrote:
5. JSonar makes every effort to leave all of Sonar's own keystrokes intact
unlike CT which makes you use different ones. I suppose it's not an issue
if you only work on your own but I must say that I greatly prefer JSonar's
way of doing things in this regard.
DD: Please list a few specifics here. I do know that in the forthcoming
release of CakeTalking for SONAR 6, there will be only 9 keystrokes that
vary from vanilla SONAR keystrokes. I have listed these in a former post.
I really should put that info up on our site. In general, many of those
keystrokes are ones that sighted users could potentially use but would be
much more likely to trigger their functions using their mouse.
Dan wrote:
My reasons are:
First, Sonar has already put keystrokes in place which makes important
operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes the
programmers time on replicating work which has already been done, and
despite what some people think, blind people are more than capable of
learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate.
Second, it can make it difficult to ask your sighted peers for help because
the CT interface is so different to theirs.
DD: I think that sighted people mainly have difficulty with some of the
default templates CT uses and the way in which the screen is layed out. As
new releases of CakeTalking are released, our dependence on specific
background colors and screen layouts is decreasing. But I think it's
important to point out that the vast majority of sighted SONAR users just
don't work the way we work, regardless of which scripts we're running. They
relate visually to SONAR's user interface and they access SONAR functions
with their mouse.
Dan again:
Third, if you try teaching Sonar to a room full of people with mixed sight
then you're asking for trouble if the people using jaws are using one set of
keystrokes and everybody else is using another set.
DD: Again, I'm willing to bet that most sighted SONAR users don't even know
about keyboard equivalents and, even if they did know about them, would not
be very interested to use them. I don't think it would be that productive
to try to teach a mixed class as blind and sighted users work very
differently. I do agree that the more we can do to make it easier for blind
and sighted users to collaborate on SONAR projects is time well spent. But
training a mixed group of new users would not be something I'd want to take
on!
Dan wrote:
Four, the Sonar help manual, which includes things not covered in the CT
manual, is often going to be useless because CT has replaced the keystrokes
which are described in the manual.
DD: Again, some specifics would be helpful. I myself have read entries
from the SONAR help system and definitely benefited from the info I found
there.
Thanks for taking the time to explore these issues.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Dan Rugman
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:23 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: HotSpot Clicker
Well there's a question that's difficult to answer on this list. I suppose
someone was going to ask sooner or later so I might as well step up to the
plate with my opinion. Let me state though that it is my opinion and I'm
sure others will think differently.
1. JSonar supports Sonar 6 and has done for a while.
2. JSonar is free!
3. JSonar gives you a wide range of keystrokes for navigating by small
steps, less than a millisecond if you want. It also lets you scrub from the
keyboard (I'm not sure if CT offers this or not).
4. JSonar's keystrokes for navigating the track fields are far more logical.
CONTROL + SHIFT + V for volume or P for pann or N for name, etc.
5. JSonar makes every effort to leave all of Sonars own keystrokes intact
unlike CT which makes you use different ones. I suppose it's not an issue
if you only work on your own but I must say that I greatly prefer JSonar's
way of doing things in this regard. My reasons are:
First, Sonar has already put keystrokes in place which makes important
operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes the
programmers time on replicating work which has already been done, and
despite what some people think, blind people are more than capable of
learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate.
Second, it can make it difficult to ask your sighted peers for help because
the CT interface is so different to theirs.
Third, if you try teaching Sonar to a room full of people with mixed sight
then you're asking for trouble if the people using jaws are using one set of
keystrokes and everybody else is using another set.
Four, the Sonar help manual, which includes things not covered in the CT
manual, is often going to be useless because CT has replaced the keystrokes
which are described in the manual.
6. JSonar supports HSC which can make some inaccessible plugins accessible.
Hope this helps.
I awaite your flamers!
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "neville" <neville@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: HotSpot Clicker
> Can someone please tell me about J Sonar and how do I get it? Is it just
> as good as CT? Also can someone explain to me in more detail how does the
> Hot spot Clicker work?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Christer" <m-christer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:10 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: HotSpot Clicker
>
>
>> Hey Phil!
>>
>> As far as I'm aware, HSC won't work with CT, because of the reasons you
>> describe!
>>
>> It definitely worx with J Sonar, and that's about the extent of my
>> knowledge...
>>
>> The guy to ask about HSC is Geoff Chapman, he's the real arbiter of the
>> app!
>>
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil Halton" <philhalt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "ddots-l" <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 11:38 PM
>> Subject: [ddots-l] HotSpot Clicker
>>
>>
>>> is this utility usable within CT? I've given a cursory read to the
>>> documentation, and I don't see how it could work with CT as it requires
>>> some editting of the Application script file. I want to use it for a
>>> softsynth plugin.
>>>
>>>
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>>
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