Well, I don't take the time anymore, as I said. The main point was not the size of the page numbers per se. I was just using that as an example of the fact that OCR software does not necessarily always render the page accurately in terms of font size, formatting, text, or anything else. At the time, though, my DP took over and I felt that I just had to fix them.
Evan----- Original Message ----- From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:53 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] changing fonts
Evan, Basically I quickly skimmed your post, but I did notice your paragraph about changing the fonts of the page numbers. That's the one thing I don't bother to change about half the time. I do if they're very large, and sometimes if they're bold or italic but not usually. I've assumed it doesn't matter to braille readers or listeners. If I have to put them in because they're missing, I'll put them in in the same font as the text, but otherwise I leave them alone, just because I don't want to take the time. I do move them to flush left if they're not, however. G.Cindy --- EVAN REESE <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I also agree with this. Besides, when Pratik advocates not changing fonts in the book, he is also making a rather large, unstated assumption, namely that OCR software is accurately recognizing font style, type and size. This may be a valid assumption in many cases, but in many others, it is clearly not valid. I've seen - and heard of - examples of K1000 changing its mind about the font size right in the middle of text, or after a rescanning of the same text with different settings. How could I possibly know which is the more accurate rendering? And what should I do if I am told that many of my page numbers are a size 2 font? which happened with one of my first scans with K1000. (I actually posted about this, and was told that this is an unreadably small font size, and I could at least tell with my Optacon that the page numbers were not really that small. Should I have left them as they were?) I often get page numbers being recognized at different sizes on adjacent pages when they are clearly the same size in the book. The same with the size of the font with other text, if I should close a scan session before finishing the book, or change scanner or OCR settings. I'm sure many others could amplify these examples by a very large number. In fact, this thread was begun by a sighted person, pointing out readability problems that were almost certainly caused by OCR Error. So leaving the book as is with respect to font is a great idea in theory, but it assumes that the OCR software renders the book as it really appears, which it often does not. So I can do one of two things: I can either change the book to one font size, except for things like section headings, which may improve readability for sighted persons and may also very well return the book to something more like it's original appearance, or I can let the chips fall where they may when it comes to font recognition and hope for the best. In many cases, probably, doing the latter will result in accurate recognition of font size and style, making for a good reading experience for sighted readers. But in many other cases, it may well make reading more difficult for sighted readers for reasons that have little or nothing to do with the appearance of the printed book but are due to misrecognition of the font size or style. I tend to do the latter anyway, just because I read through every word of each book I submit or validate and just don't want to spend the time bothering with fonts after having spent all that time trying to make sure that the text is first rate. But I have done the former on at least one occasion, and have increasing sympathy for doing it in the future, as I have become more aware of how sometimes apparently whimsically changeable font recognition seems to be. But I - like Monica - am not going to check every font line by line and fix it. I read through my submissions and validations on a braille display, and don't get that info on the Pac Mate without manual checking, and have no desire to read them through again with font messages enabled with Speech on the PC, just to make sure every font is properly rendered. And besides, having no vision and only the use of an Optacon - something most people with no vision do not have access to - except in cases like the absurdly small font size I mentioned, how could I possibly know if the font I get from K1000 is really the one in the book? If the font size suddenly changes by a few points for no apparent reason, which it sometimes does, which should I take as the one that is really in the book? In the case of the absurdly small page numbers, I did fix those. I went through this 500 plus page book and checked the font of every page number by hand and made the very small ones a size 9 or 10 or something like that. There weren't a huge number of size 2 font page numbers, but how could I know if I didn't check them all? (I hadn't thought of selecting the whole book and making it all one reasonable font size at that time.) But I have never done that kind of checking or fixing again, and don't plan to any time soon. I will either leave them entirely alone - except for section headings - and hope for the best, or make them all one size - except for section headings. All of the above applies to formatting as well, which also can create readability problems as I believe Judy mentioned in her original message. OCR software - including K1000 - does not always accurately render the formatting of a book, and sometimes makes changes for no apparent reason - which, I believe someone else mentioned here. In addition to occasionally fixing fonts, I have also left justified the text in at least one or two books that I can recall, except for section headings, which I centered if they were centered in the book. Or I just let the formatting come out as the OCR software renders it, and again, hope for the best. But here again, I am in increasing sympathy with the notion of left justifying everything, except for section headings, and making some reasonable indent for the paragraphs, at least for fiction, which is usually just paragraphs of text anyway; but I have not made a habit of this kind of changing as of yet. However, once again, leaving the formatting as it is may also detract from the readability of a book by sighted readers, not because of the formatting of the original book, but because of inaccuracy of the recognition of that formatting by the software, or of its changing its mind as to what that formatting is for no apparent reason. I recognize that what to do about these kinds of issues is something that reasonable people can disagree on. But merely saying that books should be left as they are is not adequate if they are not necessarily rendered as they are by even the best OCR software available. Evan----- Original Message ----- From: Jamie Yates, CPhTTo: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:36 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Question on Scan quality for blind vs other types of disabled bookshare readers Lora, I agree with you. And here is the thing, I can see. So I know that the font might be different than the font in the book. The majority of volunteers are blind. How do they know if what they scanned isn't identical to the print book? So how can it matter so much? Because I can see, it is wrong for me to KNOWINGLY change the font of a book I scan or validate. But if I couldn't see, it wouldn't be wrong for me to UNKNOWINGLY change the font or size. Right? But, isn't the whole point of bookshare to make books ACCESSIBLE to everybody? In a large print book the publisher changes the font size. In an audio book the publisher changes many things about the book including eliminating headers and page numbers. It seems to me that Bookshare should have some leniency here. But it also seems a simple solution for the sighted print disabled Bookshare member would be for that member to change the font size in his or her own digital copy of the book to a workable font for that user. Jamie in Michigan Currently Reading - When death comes stealing : a Tamara Hayle mystery / Valerie Wilson Wesley I'm an eBay affiliate, click here before you bid! Click here for eBay!WISH LIST (called Requested Additions To The Bookshare Collection)is available athttp://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/ http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm www.jbrownell.com for miscellaneous and useful threads ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxput the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
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