atw: Re: austechwriter Digest V6 #83
- From: "Matthew da Silva" <mdasilva@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 09:53:55 +1100
The word 'screen' originates in the controls industry because in the old
days before cathode ray tubes, the process diagram was painted on silk
screens. Little lights behind the screen showed active processes etc.
I use 'screen' rarely because it also refers to a physical object
(nowadays using LCD technology).
'Window' is often used these days because of the Internet (ie 'browser
window'). I use 'window' for a screen that has a specific purpose, eg
editing window.
'Dialogue box' is a specific thing. It has the characteristic of
prompting the user for an action. The action can be to make a choice, to
enter data, to save a file etc.
Matthew da SILVA
Technical writer, Enterprise Application Training
Information and Communications Technology
The University of Sydney
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nikki Ward
Sent: Friday, 4 April 2008 9:43 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Nikki Ward
Subject: atw: Re: austechwriter Digest V6 #83
Hi All,=3D20
Please can you expound on the virtues of using the following:
Screen vs Window vs Dialog box
I have had a discussion with a new tech writer who came on board
recently and was totally unarmed when it came to a discussion about
whether to use screens or windows when writing procedures.
Ie.
1. Click Open
=3D20 The Create SRS screen displays.
2. Complete the Create SRS screen blah blah yadda yadda
....you get the picture..=3D20
To me, screen just avoids the argument about dialog vs dialogue and
window suggests something that has operating system controls all over
it..=3D20
Can anyone offer a valid reason why one would use screen over the other
options?
Thanks,
Nikki Ward
-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager [mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 4:04 PM
To: austechwriter digest users
Subject: austechwriter Digest V6 #83
austechwriter Digest Wed, 02 Apr 2008 Volume: 06 Issue: 083
In This Issue:
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: OT: call to cyclist writers
=3D09 Re: What's in a font...
=3D09 Facilitator Required
=3D09 Re: Facilitator Required
=3D09 Re: Facilitator Required
=3D09 Training community
=3D09 Re: What's in a font...
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist?
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: What's in a font...
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: What's in a font...
=3D09 Urgent Melbourne contract; 4-6 weeks
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 TWD course in Canberra
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
=3D09 Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:04:40 +0800
From: tpdhome@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Quick, easy identification, perhaps. Why do we put icons for danger =
=3D20
etc in our manuals.
Quoting Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx>:
> They might have to know the gender and include it in the
> database entry but why would they have to be able to indicate
> it graphically with icons?
>
> -- Janice
------------------------------
From: "Warren Lewington" <wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: OT: call to cyclist writers
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:08:08 +1100
I gave a motorist and her three passengers a lesson they won't forget
=3D3D=3D
over
cutting off cyclists in roundabouts on Sunday morning drives to church
=3D3D=3D
last
weekend...
I am a very keen cyclist when well; a warm up for me is about 20km. =
=3D3D
Nothing
better than a steady 100km before work. Hoping to race again this year.
Sydney is the worst city in the world I have been to for cycling. =3D3D
Although
around Eastwood, Epping, West Ryde is good, because the predominantly
=3D3D=3D
Asian
driving population actually know what to do around cyclists. Give us =
=3D3D
room...
Vittoria tyres don't puncture that easily either. One puncture from road
crap in three years.
wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D20
WJL Consulting.
PO Box 404,
Liverpool, NSW
Australia, 1871
www.wjl.com.au
Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of =3D3D
tpdhome@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 16:17
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: OT: call to cyclist writers
I'm wondering how many among us are keen cyclists. I notice a couple
=3D3D2=3D
0
do wear or have proudly worn their cycling credentials in their =3D3D20
signatures.
I know that here in the west we enjoy some great cycling facilities
=3D3D20=3D
with good cycle paths following the freeways and other major roads.
=3D3D20=3D
I'd be interested to hear of what others think of their facilities.
Also interested to hear if there are any motorists who've had bad =
=3D3D20
experiences with cyclists, and cyclists with motorists. The bane of my
=3D3D20
life is broken glass which lies strewn along the roads and paths. =
=3D3D20
Bring on the deposit for bottles.
Cheers,
Terry Dowling
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D=3D
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION =
=3D3D
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Warren Lewington" <wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What's in a font...
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:56:39 +1100
So true about font selection. Can make a huge difference to readability
attention span.
wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D20
WJL Consulting.
PO Box 404,
Liverpool, NSW
Australia, 1871
www.wjl.com.au
Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Nason
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 13:30
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: What's in a font...
FYI.
Interesting article in today's Age newspaper (ex LA Times) on the power
=3D3D
and
politics of fonts.
Cheers,
Steve
_________
[begins]
Obama finds a reliable type to deliver message
Adam Tschorn , Los Angeles=3D3D20
The Age, 2 Apr 2008
In the US presidential race, typefaces say almost as much as the words
=3D3D=3D
they
form.
IT'S one of the most visible choices Senator Barack Obama has made, and
=3D3D
it's
burning up the blogosphere and YouTube, being debated on the radio, even
parodied.
It's a typeface, of all things; one called Gotham, which the Illinois
Democrat chose for his rally banners and campaign signs and which some
typographers are calling the hot font of 2008.
Though a discussion of fonts may seem obscure, anyone who has agonised
=3D3D=3D
over
the look of a wedding invitation or sweated over a resume knows that the
shape of letters can say nearly as much about a person as the words they
spell out. And in the computer age, the message conveyed by a font is no
longer subliminal. It's overt.
"We see type as the clothes that words wear," typographer Tobias =3D3D
Frere-Jones
said. "You have more than one outfit in your closet because you don't
=3D3D=3D
wear
the same thing to the office that you'd wear to the beach."
Typefaces with big round Os and tails are considered more friendly, =
=3D3D
whereas
linear fonts evoke overtones of "rigidity, technology and coldness",
according to British psychologist Dr Aric Sigman. With artistic =3D3D
flourishes
such as a tail on a lower-case "a", serif styles "conjure images of
trustworthiness", whereas uncluttered sans serif styles "carry less
emotional baggage", he says.
The serif typeface used in Senator Hillary Clinton's logo is New
Baskerville, commonly used by book publishers, law firms and =3D3D
universities.
Senator John McCain's sans serif Optima was created in 1958 by Hermann
=3D3D=3D
Zapf
(who, like the Arizona Republican, was once a POW). Simon Daniels, lead
program manager of fonts for Microsoft's typography team, noted one =
=3D3D
poignant
and high-profile use of the typeface. "It's the same one used to engrave
=3D3D
the
names into the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall (in Washington)," he said.
=3D3D
"An
interesting coincidence."
But Senator Obama's sans serif Gotham has been getting all the =3D3D
attention.
The font on his signs and banners proclaiming "Change We Can Believe In"
=3D3D
and
"Stand for Change" has a vague familiarity.
John Berry, author of books on typography, calls Gotham the font of =
=3D3D
2008.
"It's the hot one," he said. Another commentator likens it to an Armani
suit. Online, typography blogs are full of love letters to the typeface,
=3D3D
and
one artist created a spitting-image parody of an Obama sign declaring:
"Gotham, a Font We Can Believe In".
"It's funny to see it used in a political campaign because on the one
=3D3D=3D
hand
it's almost too ordinary, yet that's the point," Mr Berry said. "It has
=3D3D
that
sense of trustworthiness because you've seen it everywhere."
LOS ANGELES TIMES
[ends]
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D=3D
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION =
=3D3D
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Susy North" <susy.north@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Facilitator Required
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:31:34 +1100
Hi all
A client we are currently doing some work for is looking for an
experienced
Facilitator to run some system-based training.
Where? City-based
When? Immediate start until about early June
They will be able to provide further details on application. If you are
interested, please email your CV, availability and daily rate to
susy@xxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
------------------------------
From: James Hunt <jameshunt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Facilitator Required
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:14:01 +1000
And I wouldn't mind betting that this originated in Sydney - that =3D20
city-without-an-area-code that often appears in job ads...
On 02 Apr 2008, at 8:31 PM, Susy North wrote:
>
> Where? City-based
>
------------------------------
From: "Susy North" <susy.north@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Facilitator Required
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:16:52 +1100
Ooops!! Sorry about that. It's actually Melbourne CBD.
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James Hunt
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 10:14 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Facilitator Required
And I wouldn't mind betting that this originated in Sydney - that =3D20
city-without-an-area-code that often appears in job ads...
On 02 Apr 2008, at 8:31 PM, Susy North wrote:
>
> Where? City-based
>
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Training community
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:13:41 +1100
For those of you also into training you may be interested in this new
community.
=3D20
HYPERLINK "http://www.learningtown.com"http://www.learningtown.com
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
1/04/2008
5:37 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What's in a font...
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:17:13 +1100
Not to mention emotional response. If you doubt emotional response, try
using comic sans with engineers.
ck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Warren Lewington
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 8:57 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: What's in a font...
>=3D20
> So true about font selection. Can make a huge difference to
readability
> attention span.
>=3D20
> wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
> =3D3D20
> WJL Consulting.
> PO Box 404,
> Liverpool, NSW
> Australia, 1871
> www.wjl.com.au
> Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
> Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
>=3D20
>=3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Nason
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 13:30
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: What's in a font...
>=3D20
>=3D20
> FYI.
> Interesting article in today's Age newspaper (ex LA Times) on the
power
> =3D3D
> and
> politics of fonts.
>=3D20
> Cheers,
>=3D20
> Steve
> _________
> [begins]
> Obama finds a reliable type to deliver message
>=3D20
> Adam Tschorn , Los Angeles=3D3D20
>=3D20
> The Age, 2 Apr 2008
>=3D20
> In the US presidential race, typefaces say almost as much as the words
> =3D3D
> they
> form.
>=3D20
> IT'S one of the most visible choices Senator Barack Obama has made,
and
> =3D3D
> it's
> burning up the blogosphere and YouTube, being debated on the radio,
> even
> parodied.
>=3D20
> It's a typeface, of all things; one called Gotham, which the Illinois
> Democrat chose for his rally banners and campaign signs and which some
> typographers are calling the hot font of 2008.
>=3D20
> Though a discussion of fonts may seem obscure, anyone who has agonised
> =3D3D
> over
> the look of a wedding invitation or sweated over a resume knows that
> the
> shape of letters can say nearly as much about a person as the words
> they
> spell out. And in the computer age, the message conveyed by a font is
> no
> longer subliminal. It's overt.
>=3D20
> "We see type as the clothes that words wear," typographer Tobias =3D3D
> Frere-Jones
> said. "You have more than one outfit in your closet because you don't
=3D3D
> wear
> the same thing to the office that you'd wear to the beach."
>=3D20
> Typefaces with big round Os and tails are considered more friendly,
=3D3D=3D
> whereas
> linear fonts evoke overtones of "rigidity, technology and coldness",
> according to British psychologist Dr Aric Sigman. With artistic =3D3D
> flourishes
> such as a tail on a lower-case "a", serif styles "conjure images of
> trustworthiness", whereas uncluttered sans serif styles "carry less
> emotional baggage", he says.
>=3D20
> The serif typeface used in Senator Hillary Clinton's logo is New
> Baskerville, commonly used by book publishers, law firms and =3D3D
> universities.
>=3D20
> Senator John McCain's sans serif Optima was created in 1958 by Hermann
> =3D3D
> Zapf
> (who, like the Arizona Republican, was once a POW). Simon Daniels,
lead
> program manager of fonts for Microsoft's typography team, noted one
=3D3D=3D
> poignant
> and high-profile use of the typeface. "It's the same one used to
> engrave =3D3D
> the
> names into the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall (in Washington)," he
> said. =3D3D
> "An
> interesting coincidence."
>=3D20
> But Senator Obama's sans serif Gotham has been getting all the =3D3D
> attention.
> The font on his signs and banners proclaiming "Change We Can Believe
> In" =3D3D
> and
> "Stand for Change" has a vague familiarity.
>=3D20
> John Berry, author of books on typography, calls Gotham the font of
=3D3D=3D
> 2008.
> "It's the hot one," he said. Another commentator likens it to an
Armani
> suit. Online, typography blogs are full of love letters to the
> typeface, =3D3D
> and
> one artist created a spitting-image parody of an Obama sign declaring:
> "Gotham, a Font We Can Believe In".
>=3D20
> "It's funny to see it used in a political campaign because on the one
=3D3D
> hand
> it's almost too ordinary, yet that's the point," Mr Berry said. "It
has
> =3D3D
> that
> sense of trustworthiness because you've seen it everywhere."
>=3D20
> LOS ANGELES TIMES
>=3D20
> [ends]
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D
> with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
=3D3D=3D
> modes)
> go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
> 1/04/2008 5:37 PM
>=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
1/04/2008
5:37 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:17:49 +1100
From: Hedley Finger <hfinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
At Wednesday, 2/04/2008, 05:08 PM;, you wrote:
>They might have to know the gender and include it in the
>database entry but why would they have to be able to indicate
>it graphically with icons?
Because you might embarrass yourself by assuming that an Asian or=3D20
Eskimo or Latvian name belongs to a male but the person is female.
-- Hedley
--
Hedley Stewart Finger
28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia
Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Mobile +61 412 461 558,
E-mail <mailto:hfinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ana Young <ana_young2000@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
I must be missing something here. If the system stores
staff details, why is there a need for an
indeterminate gender? Surely, the details come from
some official form that was original (hopefully)
filled in by the person and supplied by HR. At least,
that's what happens in most companies when you join
them.
Personally, I find having that third option fairly
bad.=3D20
Cheers,
Ana
--- Howard.Silcock@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> A tech writer friend is working with developers on
> software that stores=3D20
> personal details of staff. We were amused to find
> that the developers used=3D20
> blue and pink 'humanoid' icons to distinguish men
> and women. Some people=3D20
> objected to this, both because blue and pink have
> other connotations and=3D20
> because it was questionable whether it was even
> necessary to distinguish=3D20
> staff by sex.=3D20
> The issue was discussed with the developers and
> various suggestions were=3D20
> thrown around. I hadn't heard any more until
> recently, but today was told=3D20
> about the latest version. It now has three options
> you can associate with=3D20
> a person's entry: male, female and indeterminate.=3D20
>=3D20
> Are they making progress or moving backwards
> (socially speaking)?
>=3D20
> Howard
>=3D20
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to
> austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset
> DIGEST and VACATION modes) go to
> www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
=3D20
________________________________________________________________________
____________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
Total Access, No Cost. =3D20
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
From: Howard.Silcock@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:33:22 +1100
The main point of my post was the absurdity of having an option labelled
'indeterminate'. And the fact that the developers seem to have put this
in=3D20
as an attempt to mitigate concern about possible sexism!
'Indeterminate' isn't at all the same as 'unknown'. If you wanted =
to=3D20
include records on which a person's sex was unknown to the person
creating=3D20
the entry, why couldn't you just make it a non-required field?
=3D20I won't get into the argument about whether it's OK to ask for or
stor=3D
e
a=3D20
person's sex. At the moment I'm interested in how people use words.
And=3D20
I'm starting to wonder: why do we now seem to use the grammatical
term=3D20
'gender' instead of 'sex', but still talk about 'sexism', not
'genderism'?
Howard
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:42:43 +1100
. And
> I'm starting to wonder: why do we now seem to use the grammatical term
> 'gender' instead of 'sex', but still talk about 'sexism', not
> 'genderism'?
Cos sex lives in the bedroom and gender doesn't.
Not many people are confused about gender, but very many people are
confused
about sex. And as we all know, no-one would be sexist if they were not
confused about sex, would they?
ck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard.Silcock@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 9:33 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>=3D20
> The main point of my post was the absurdity of having an option
> labelled
> 'indeterminate'. And the fact that the developers seem to have put
this
> in
> as an attempt to mitigate concern about possible sexism!
> 'Indeterminate' isn't at all the same as 'unknown'. If you wanted to
> include records on which a person's sex was unknown to the person
> creating
> the entry, why couldn't you just make it a non-required field?
>=3D20
> I won't get into the argument about whether it's OK to ask for or
> store a
> person's sex. At the moment I'm interested in how people use words
>=3D20
> Howard
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
> 1/04/2008 5:37 PM
>=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
1/04/2008
5:37 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:56:13 +1100
From: Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Hedley Finger wrote:
> At Wednesday, 2/04/2008, 05:08 PM;, you wrote:
>> They might have to know the gender and include it in the
>> database entry but why would they have to be able to indicate
>> it graphically with icons?
>=3D20
> Because you might embarrass yourself by assuming that an Asian or=3D20
> Eskimo or Latvian name belongs to a male but the person is female.
>=3D20
That would be in the data itself. My question was about
why they need a graphic representation of the data.
And I have to agree with Howard: "indeterminate" means
that someone checked but was unable to come to any
conclusion :-> I believe that "unknown" or "not available"
would be a better bet!
-- Janice
**********************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:24:32 +1100
From: Caz.H <cazhart@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Gender has always been correct. It's "sex" that has over-taken the
correct
term. Sex is the activity of such, but has long been used in relation
to
one's gender. Possibly this came into common practice when forms
amended
the "gender" tick-box to "sex", as too many people, apparently, had no
idea
of their own "gender", but had no trouble with "sex". It still makes me
snirtle when I see forms with the "sex" box - I'm still tempted to write
yes
or no, or a number, or a curt "none of your business"
Gender is the designated sex of an individual, encompassing identity and
social mores, etc, so it's far more than the biology of one's genitals.
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on gender. Like the other
"isms," sexism can be both personal and institutional.
What I do find odd here is how many people seem to object to, or
believe it
to be irrelevant, for companies to keep data about their workforce,
including gender. This is pretty routine stuff, certainly for any
medium to
large organisation, and there are many reasons why organisations should
know
and use information about their staff - gender, age, level of education,
years in the industry, etc. If they don't have and don't use data about
their most basic resource, then they aren't managing their business.
Yes, I
do appreciate that the latter is probably mostly the case! I'm talking
"ideal world".
Agree that the field under discussion should be optional, given that
they
apparently do not have a reliable source or quality of data. Fields
should
only be mandatory if there is a high degree of certainty around the
collection of that data.
There are many, many, many unisex and ambiguous names these days, in
addition to non-Anglo-Saxon names, all of which can add up to gender
confusion. I would consider it a courtesy to include gender data, as it
helps to smooth initial interactions and relationships. Who wouldn't
want
to know if Kerry or Gurua or Ocean Smith is Mr Smith or Mrs Smith if
they
are inviting that person to a meeting, or calling them for the first
time?
As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will be,
but
"Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting feminist
symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for all
women,
"Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill", or
"married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
prefix
options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women, nor is
"Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
Caz.H
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Howard.Silcock@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > A tech writer friend is working with developers on software that
stores
> > personal details of staff. We were amused to find that the
developers
> used
> > blue and pink 'humanoid' icons to distinguish men and women. Some
people
> > objected to this, both because blue and pink have other connotations
and
> > because it was questionable whether it was even necessary to
distinguish
> > staff by sex.
> > The issue was discussed with the developers and various suggestions
were
> > thrown around. I hadn't heard any more until recently, but today was
> told
> > about the latest version. It now has three options you can associate
> with
> > a person's entry: male, female and indeterminate.
> >
> > Are they making progress or moving backwards (socially speaking)?
> >
>
> That's absurd. If knowing the gender of the staff member
> is necessary for some reason, then having an "indeterminate"
> choice is ridiculous. And if the gender of the staff member
> is not required information, then what are they doing mucking
> about with coloured icons? And even if they did need to
> indicate the gender somehow (can't imagine why myself),
> why can't they just use international symbols like the
> ones used on rest room doors or something instead of
> picking sexist colours?
>
> -- Janice
>
> **********************************************************
> Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
> janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>
>
--=3D20
Carolyn Hart
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:32:08 +1100
From: Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Caz.H wrote:
>=3D20
> As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will be,
but
> "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting feminist
> symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for all
women,
> "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill", or
> "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
prefix
> options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women, nor
is
> "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
>=3D20
Just tell us how you really feel :-> And when you're
done with that, explain what honorific you would use
for a married woman who has kept her own surname rather
than changing to her husband's. Or what honorific
you would suggest for a woman who doesn't feel like
advertising her marital state through her address.
-- Janice
**********************************************************
=3D20> Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
=3D20> janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:40:21 +1000
From: Kirsty.Taylor@xxxxxxxxxx
Hi,
Gender is primarily a grammatical construct (i.e. masucline,
feminine,=3D20
neuter) for nouns in gendered languages. The term is also used to refer
to=3D20
the state of being male or female, but in relation to social or cultural
differences, rather than biological ones.=3D20
Sex, as well as being the function of reproducing, is the main divisions
(male and female) into which living things are divided (noun form).=3D20
As someone with a linguistics background and working with words all
the=3D20
time, I see very clear differences between the terms; although they
are=3D20
used interchangably, probably in part out of prudishness and =
avoiding=3D20
people filling in forms with "none of your business". For at least=3D20
linguists and biologists, these terms are quite clear and distinct =
in=3D20
their meaning - gender for language (e.g. der Mann, das Kind, etc =
in=3D20
German) and sex for biological male or femaleness.=3D20
Kirsty
This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential
information. If you have received this transmission in error, =
please=3D20
notify the sender and delete the transmission. The contents of this
e-mail=3D20
are the opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by Mincom
Limited=3D20
unless expressly stated otherwise.=3D20
Caz.H <cazhart@xxxxxxxxx>=3D20
Sent by: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
03/04/2008 09:25 AM
Please respond to
austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To
austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
cc
Subject
atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Gender has always been correct. It's "sex" that has over-taken the=3D20
correct
term. Sex is the activity of such, but has long been used in relation
to
one's gender. Possibly this came into common practice when forms
amended
the "gender" tick-box to "sex", as too many people, apparently, had
no=3D20
idea
of their own "gender", but had no trouble with "sex". It still makes me
snirtle when I see forms with the "sex" box - I'm still tempted to write
yes
or no, or a number, or a curt "none of your business"
Gender is the designated sex of an individual, encompassing identity and
social mores, etc, so it's far more than the biology of one's genitals.
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on gender. Like the other
"isms," sexism can be both personal and institutional.
What I do find odd here is how many people seem to object to, or
believe=3D20
it
to be irrelevant, for companies to keep data about their workforce,
including gender. This is pretty routine stuff, certainly for any
medium=3D20
to
large organisation, and there are many reasons why organisations
should=3D20
know
and use information about their staff - gender, age, level of education,
years in the industry, etc. If they don't have and don't use data about
their most basic resource, then they aren't managing their business.
Yes,=3D20
I
do appreciate that the latter is probably mostly the case! I'm talking
"ideal world".
Agree that the field under discussion should be optional, given that
they
apparently do not have a reliable source or quality of data. =
Fields=3D20
should
only be mandatory if there is a high degree of certainty around the
collection of that data.
There are many, many, many unisex and ambiguous names these days, in
addition to non-Anglo-Saxon names, all of which can add up to gender
confusion. I would consider it a courtesy to include gender data, as it
helps to smooth initial interactions and relationships. Who wouldn't
want
to know if Kerry or Gurua or Ocean Smith is Mr Smith or Mrs Smith if
they
are inviting that person to a meeting, or calling them for the first
time?
As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will be,
but
"Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting feminist
symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for =
all=3D20
women,
"Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill", or
"married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
prefix
options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women, nor is
"Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
Caz.H
--=3D20
This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential
information. If you have received this transmission in error, please
notify the sender and delete the transmission. The contents of this
e-mail are the opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the
Mincom Group of companies unless expressly stated otherwise.
--=3D20
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:42:19 +1100
So, as a feminist, what title do you use?=3D20
Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we give
them.
I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms because
someone
else has ridiculed them. =3D20
In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
overtones,
and we can either keep running away from our abusers by inventing new
words,
or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss should be
removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement can be
made
about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for Ms if
you
like, but make it mandatory.
In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
themselves
black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If they
wear
the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of abuse.
The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are afraid to
wear
them with pride.
ck
=3D20
> As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will be,
> but
> "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting feminist
> symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for all
> women,
> "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill", or
> "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
> prefix
> options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women, nor
> is
> "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
>=3D20
> Caz.H
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
2/04/2008
4:14 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:56:46 +1100
From: Caz.H <cazhart@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
ck
Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist (now
capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be
interpreted as
me running away from the word feminist. I don't run away from "Ms"
because
I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people say
anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision as they
prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe about are
the
all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and so on. It's
a
fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have a long
list hidden in my subconscious.
For married women who keep their own name, or mature women, regardless
of
marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
Caz.H
On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
>
> Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we give
> them.
>
> I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms because
> someone
> else has ridiculed them.
>
> In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
overtones,
> and we can either keep running away from our abusers by inventing new
> words,
> or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss should
be
> removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement can
be
> made
> about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for Ms if
you
> like, but make it mandatory.
>
> In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
themselves
> black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If
they
> wear
> the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of abuse.
>
> The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are afraid to
> wear
> them with pride.
>
> ck
>
>
> > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will
be,
> > but
> > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
feminist
> > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for
all
> > women,
> > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill", or
> > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
> > prefix
> > options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women,
nor
> > is
> > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> >
> > Caz.H
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
2/04/2008
> 4:14 PM
>
>
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>
--=3D20
Carolyn Hart
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:08:27 +1100
From: Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Caz.H wrote:
>=3D20
> For married women who keep their own name, or mature women, regardless
of
> marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
>=3D20
The ambiguousness of "Ms" is the point! Your
idiosyncratic interpretation aside, the title "Mrs"
is understood to refer to a married woman, and the
surname that follows to a joint surname with her
husband. The very reason that "Ms" was coined was
to establish an honorific that did not reveal the
woman's marital status, as "Mr" does not indicate
a man's marital status.
Even if you don't like it, societal norms are that
"Mrs" means married, "Miss" means single, and "Ms"
means "none of your business"
-- Janice
**********************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
------------------------------
From: "Warren Lewington" <wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What's in a font...
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:20:45 +1100
Oxymoron for the week:
Emotional Engineers.
wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
=3D20
WJL Consulting.
PO Box 404,
Liverpool, NSW
Australia, 1871
www.wjl.com.au
Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 08:17
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: What's in a font...
Not to mention emotional response. If you doubt emotional response, try
using comic sans with engineers.
ck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-=3D20
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Warren Lewington
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 8:57 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: What's in a font...
>=3D20
> So true about font selection. Can make a huge difference to=3D20
> readability attention span.
>=3D20
> wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
> =3D3D20
> WJL Consulting.
> PO Box 404,
> Liverpool, NSW
> Australia, 1871
> www.wjl.com.au
> Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
> Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
>=3D20
>=3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Nason
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 13:30
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: What's in a font...
>=3D20
>=3D20
> FYI.
> Interesting article in today's Age newspaper (ex LA Times) on the=3D20
> power =3D3D and
> politics of fonts.
>=3D20
> Cheers,
>=3D20
> Steve
> _________
> [begins]
> Obama finds a reliable type to deliver message
>=3D20
> Adam Tschorn , Los Angeles=3D3D20
>=3D20
> The Age, 2 Apr 2008
>=3D20
> In the US presidential race, typefaces say almost as much as the words
> =3D3D they
> form.
>=3D20
> IT'S one of the most visible choices Senator Barack Obama has =
made,=3D20
> and =3D3D it's
> burning up the blogosphere and YouTube, being debated on the radio,
> even
> parodied.
>=3D20
> It's a typeface, of all things; one called Gotham, which the
Illinois=3D20
> Democrat chose for his rally banners and campaign signs and which some
> typographers are calling the hot font of 2008.
>=3D20
> Though a discussion of fonts may seem obscure, anyone who has agonised
> =3D3D over
> the look of a wedding invitation or sweated over a resume knows that
> the
> shape of letters can say nearly as much about a person as the words
> they
> spell out. And in the computer age, the message conveyed by a font is
> no
> longer subliminal. It's overt.
>=3D20
> "We see type as the clothes that words wear," typographer Tobias
=3D3D=3D20
> Frere-Jones said. "You have more than one outfit in your closet=3D20
> because you don't =3D3D wear
> the same thing to the office that you'd wear to the beach."
>=3D20
> Typefaces with big round Os and tails are considered more friendly,
=3D3D=3D
=3D20
> whereas linear fonts evoke overtones of "rigidity, technology and=3D20
> coldness", according to British psychologist Dr Aric Sigman. With=3D20
> artistic =3D3D flourishes
> such as a tail on a lower-case "a", serif styles "conjure images of
> trustworthiness", whereas uncluttered sans serif styles "carry less
> emotional baggage", he says.
>=3D20
> The serif typeface used in Senator Hillary Clinton's logo is New=3D20
> Baskerville, commonly used by book publishers, law firms and =
=3D3D=3D20
> universities.
>=3D20
> Senator John McCain's sans serif Optima was created in 1958 by Hermann
> =3D3D Zapf
> (who, like the Arizona Republican, was once a POW). Simon Daniels,
lead
> program manager of fonts for Microsoft's typography team, noted one
=3D3D=3D
> poignant
> and high-profile use of the typeface. "It's the same one used to
> engrave =3D3D
> the
> names into the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall (in Washington)," he
> said. =3D3D
> "An
> interesting coincidence."
>=3D20
> But Senator Obama's sans serif Gotham has been getting all the =
=3D3D=3D20
> attention. The font on his signs and banners proclaiming "Change =
We=3D20
> Can Believe In" =3D3D
> and
> "Stand for Change" has a vague familiarity.
>=3D20
> John Berry, author of books on typography, calls Gotham the font of
=3D3D=3D
=3D20
> 2008. "It's the hot one," he said. Another commentator likens it to an
> Armani suit. Online, typography blogs are full of love letters to the
> typeface, =3D3D
> and
> one artist created a spitting-image parody of an Obama sign declaring:
> "Gotham, a Font We Can Believe In".
>=3D20
> "It's funny to see it used in a political campaign because on the
one=3D20
> =3D3D hand it's almost too ordinary, yet that's the point," Mr Berry
said=3D
.
> "It has =3D3D
> that
> sense of trustworthiness because you've seen it everywhere."
>=3D20
> LOS ANGELES TIMES
>=3D20
> [ends]
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to=3D20
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
> =3D3D with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
=3D3D=3D
> modes)
> go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to=3D20
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to=3D20
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to =
austechwriter-=3D20
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:=3D20
> 1/04/2008 5:37 PM
>=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
1/04/2008
5:37 PM
=3D20
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:45:39 +1100
From: Caz.H <cazhart@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Oh dear - forgive me for having an opinion. I'll stop thinking for
myself immediately.
On 4/3/08, Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Caz.H wrote:
> >
> > For married women who keep their own name, or mature women,
regardless
> of
> > marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> > undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
> >
>
> The ambiguousness of "Ms" is the point! Your
> idiosyncratic interpretation aside, the title "Mrs"
> is understood to refer to a married woman, and the
> surname that follows to a joint surname with her
> husband. The very reason that "Ms" was coined was
> to establish an honorific that did not reveal the
> woman's marital status, as "Mr" does not indicate
> a man's marital status.
>
> Even if you don't like it, societal norms are that
> "Mrs" means married, "Miss" means single, and "Ms"
> means "none of your business"
>
> -- Janice
>
> **********************************************************
> Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
> janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>
--=3D20
Carolyn Hart
------------------------------
From: Dominic Lowe <dominic516@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What's in a font...
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:59:01 +1000
An 'emotional engineer' would surely be a psychiatrist...
------------------------------
From: "Geoffrey Marnell" <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Urgent Melbourne contract; 4-6 weeks
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:13:01 +1100
Hi austechies,
=3D20
I need someone to start immediately on a short contract in Melbourne's
eastern suburbs. 4-6 weeks, possibly a little longer, finalising an
operating manual and a service manual for a piece of bio-medical
equipment.
FrameMaker skills necessary, and mechanical aptitude desirable.
=3D20
Call me on 0419 574 668 or send me your CV ASAP.
=3D20
Regards
=3D20
Geoffrey Marnell
Principal Consultant
Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
T: (+61 3) 9596 3456
F: (+61 3) 9596 3625
W: http://www.abelard.com.au <http://www.abelard.com.au/>=3D20
=3D20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:23:06 +1100
From: Janice Gelb <Janice.Gelb@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Caz.H wrote:
> Oh dear - forgive me for having an opinion. I'll stop thinking for
> myself immediately.
>=3D20
You are of course entitled to an opinion. Yours was:
=3D20 "In lieu of a singular title for all women, "Ms" is a
=3D20 neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill",
=3D20 or married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral.
=3D20 Having three prefix options for women didn't neutralise
=3D20 or equalise titles for women, nor is "Ms" the equivalent
=3D20 of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
You said "Ms" is not the equivalent of "Mr." I was simply
trying to point out that for most people, "Ms" *is* the
equivalent of "Mr." I thought you might be interested in
another viewpoint and an explanation of general understandings
of these terms so that as the feminist you claim you are, you
could achieve what I assume is your desired outcome: more
respect and equality for women.
Cheers!
**********************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:29:23 +1100
From: "Bruce Ashley" <bruce.ashley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Girls girls girls... enough already.
Most of you don't even know the difference between a feminist and a
womanist anyway.
Shees.
:]
Bruce (Mr)
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Janice Gelb
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:23 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Caz.H wrote:
> Oh dear - forgive me for having an opinion. I'll stop thinking for
> myself immediately.
>=3D3D20
You are of course entitled to an opinion. Yours was:
=3D3D20 "In lieu of a singular title for all women, "Ms" is a
=3D3D20 neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill",
=3D3D20 or married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral.
=3D3D20 Having three prefix options for women didn't neutralise
=3D3D20 or equalise titles for women, nor is "Ms" the equivalent
=3D3D20 of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
You said "Ms" is not the equivalent of "Mr." I was simply
trying to point out that for most people, "Ms" *is* the
equivalent of "Mr." I thought you might be interested in
another viewpoint and an explanation of general understandings
of these terms so that as the feminist you claim you are, you
could achieve what I assume is your desired outcome: more
respect and equality for women.
Cheers!
**********************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janice.gelb@xxxxxxx | this message is the return address
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
=3D3D
by NetIQ MailMarshal
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
The information contained in this email communication may be
confidential=3D3D
.
You should only read, disclose, re-transmit, copy, distribute, act in
rel=3D3D
iance
on or commercialise the information if you are authorised to do so. If
yo=3D3D
u are not
the intended recipient of this email communication, please notify us
imme=3D3D
diately by
email to administrator@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or reply by email direct to the
s=3D3D
ender and=3D3D20
then destroy any electronic or paper copy of this message. Any views
expr=3D3D
essed in=3D3D20
this email communication are those of the individual sender, except
where=3D3D
=3D3D20the sender=3D3D20
specifically states them to be the views of Wridgways The
Removalists.=3D3DA0=3D3D
=3D3D20Any personal=3D3D20
information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy
=3D3D
Act 1988=3D3D20
(Cth). Wridgways The Removalists does not represent, warrant or
guarantee=3D3D
=3D3D20that the=3D3D20
integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the
communic=3D3D
ation is=3D3D20
free of errors, virus or interference.
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:37:24 +1100
No reason for you taking offense, Caz, I was talking generally not
specifically, and simply asking you how you solve the obvious problem of
Ms
for yourself.
As a mature age Ms, I can tell you I have no intention of anyone ever
addressing me as MRS which, in my emotive value on language, denotes
subservience and compliance - sorry to the married women out there, but
I
would rather be thought of as a ball breaker, which I presume I am.=3D20
And Bruce, this is not a woman's issue. Do not call woman "girls" and
do
not assume a disagreement between women is a cat fight. You deserve to
spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
Christine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:57 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>=3D20
> ck
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist (now
> capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be
> interpreted as
> me running away from the word feminist. I don't run away from "Ms"
> because
> I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people say
> anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision as
> they
> prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe about
are
> the
> all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and so on.
It's
> a
> fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have a
> long
> list hidden in my subconscious.
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> For married women who keep their own name, or mature women, regardless
> of
> marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Caz.H
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
> >
> > Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we
> give
> > them.
> >
> > I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms because
> > someone
> > else has ridiculed them.
> >
> > In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
> overtones,
> > and we can either keep running away from our abusers by inventing
new
> > words,
> > or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss should
> be
> > removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement can
> be
> > made
> > about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for Ms
> if you
> > like, but make it mandatory.
> >
> > In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
> themselves
> > black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If
> they
> > wear
> > the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of
> abuse.
> >
> > The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are afraid
> to
> > wear
> > them with pride.
> >
> > ck
> >
> >
> > > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will
> be,
> > > but
> > > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
> feminist
> > > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for
> all
> > > women,
> > > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill",
> or
> > > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
> > > prefix
> > > options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women,
> nor
> > > is
> > > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> > >
> > > Caz.H
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008
> > 4:14 PM
> >
> >
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with
> > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> --
> Carolyn Hart
>=3D20
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
>=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
2/04/2008
4:14 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:56:03 +1100
From: "Bruce Ashley" <bruce.ashley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
LOL
"You deserve to spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
<sigh>
That has always been one of my dreams Christine.
:D
Cheers,
Bruce
(Who knew he wouldn't get away with it :))
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:37 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
No reason for you taking offense, Caz, I was talking generally not
specifically, and simply asking you how you solve the obvious problem of
Ms
for yourself.
As a mature age Ms, I can tell you I have no intention of anyone ever
addressing me as MRS which, in my emotive value on language, denotes
subservience and compliance - sorry to the married women out there, but
I
would rather be thought of as a ball breaker, which I presume I =
am.=3D3D20
And Bruce, this is not a woman's issue. Do not call woman "girls" and
do
not assume a disagreement between women is a cat fight. You deserve to
spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
Christine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:57 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>=3D3D20
> ck
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist (now
> capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be
> interpreted as
> me running away from the word feminist. I don't run away from "Ms"
> because
> I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people say
> anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision as
> they
> prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe about
are
> the
> all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and so on.
It's
> a
> fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have a
> long
> list hidden in my subconscious.
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> For married women who keep their own name, or mature women, regardless
> of
> marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> Caz.H
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
> >
> > Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we
> give
> > them.
> >
> > I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms because
> > someone
> > else has ridiculed them.
> >
> > In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
> overtones,
> > and we can either keep running away from our abusers by inventing
new
> > words,
> > or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss should
> be
> > removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement can
> be
> > made
> > about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for Ms
> if you
> > like, but make it mandatory.
> >
> > In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
> themselves
> > black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If
> they
> > wear
> > the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of
> abuse.
> >
> > The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are afraid
> to
> > wear
> > them with pride.
> >
> > ck
> >
> >
> > > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will
> be,
> > > but
> > > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
> feminist
> > > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for
> all
> > > women,
> > > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill",
> or
> > > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
> > > prefix
> > > options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for women,
> nor
> > > is
> > > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> > >
> > > Caz.H
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008
> > 4:14 PM
> >
> >
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with
> > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> --
> Carolyn Hart
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
>=3D3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
2/04/2008
4:14 PM
=3D3D20
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
=3D3D
by NetIQ MailMarshal
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
The information contained in this email communication may be
confidential=3D3D
.
You should only read, disclose, re-transmit, copy, distribute, act in
rel=3D3D
iance
on or commercialise the information if you are authorised to do so. If
yo=3D3D
u are not
the intended recipient of this email communication, please notify us
imme=3D3D
diately by
email to administrator@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or reply by email direct to the
s=3D3D
ender and=3D3D20
then destroy any electronic or paper copy of this message. Any views
expr=3D3D
essed in=3D3D20
this email communication are those of the individual sender, except
where=3D3D
=3D3D20the sender=3D3D20
specifically states them to be the views of Wridgways The
Removalists.=3D3DA0=3D3D
=3D3D20Any personal=3D3D20
information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy
=3D3D
Act 1988=3D3D20
(Cth). Wridgways The Removalists does not represent, warrant or
guarantee=3D3D
=3D3D20that the=3D3D20
integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the
communic=3D3D
ation is=3D3D20
free of errors, virus or interference.
########################################################################
#=3D3D
############
------------------------------
From: "Warren Lewington" <wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:13:38 +1100
Mum was a ball breaker. Still is. But she always irked at Ms. While =
=3D3D
women
were burning their bras in the seventies though, she had already left
=3D3D=3D
the
fire she had lit and went on to something different, helping screen for
=3D3D
TB
and other diseases with the health dept, while preparing to become a =
=3D3D
nurse
educator.=3D3D20
All the while keeping doctors and beaurocrats firmly in their place. =
=3D3D
Bruce,
you would be an interesting sideline for mum - she would have treated
=3D3D=3D
you as
a muse.
We need more of her ilk in the health system now.
Hey, ladies, as long as you remember that we men are still only human...
wjlewington@xxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D20
WJL Consulting.
PO Box 404,
Liverpool, NSW
Australia, 1871
www.wjl.com.au
Phone/facsimile: +61 2 9876 5345
Mobile/cell phone: +61 0408 612 752
-----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent
Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:37
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
No reason for you taking offense, Caz, I was talking generally not
specifically, and simply asking you how you solve the obvious problem of
=3D3D
Ms
for yourself.
As a mature age Ms, I can tell you I have no intention of anyone ever
addressing me as MRS which, in my emotive value on language, denotes
subservience and compliance - sorry to the married women out there, but
=3D3D
I
would rather be thought of as a ball breaker, which I presume I =
am.=3D3D20
And Bruce, this is not a woman's issue. Do not call woman "girls" and
=3D3D=3D
do
not assume a disagreement between women is a cat fight. You deserve to
spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
Christine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-=3D3D20
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:57 AM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>=3D3D20
> ck
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist (now
=3D3D
> capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be=3D3D20
> interpreted as me running away from the word feminist. I don't
run=3D3D2=3D
0
> away from "Ms" because
> I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people say
> anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision as
> they
> prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe
about=3D3D2=3D
0
> are the all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and
so=3D3D20
> on. It's a
> fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have a
> long
> list hidden in my subconscious.
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> For married women who keep their own name, or mature women, regardless
=3D3D
> of marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> Caz.H
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
> >
> > Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we
> give
> > them.
> >
> > I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms
because=3D3D20
> > someone else has ridiculed them.
> >
> > In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
> overtones,
> > and we can either keep running away from our abusers by
inventing=3D3D2=3D
0
> > new words, or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs
and=3D3D20
> > Miss should
> be
> > removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement can
> be
> > made
> > about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for Ms
> if you
> > like, but make it mandatory.
> >
> > In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
> themselves
> > black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If
> they
> > wear
> > the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of
> abuse.
> >
> > The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are afraid
> to
> > wear
> > them with pride.
> >
> > ck
> >
> >
> > > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always will
> be,
> > > but
> > > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
> feminist
> > > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title for
> all
> > > women,
> > > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the hill",
> or
> > > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having three
=3D3D
> > > prefix options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles
for=3D3D20
> > > women,
> nor
> > > is
> > > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> > >
> > > Caz.H
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008
> > 4:14 PM
> >
> >
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to=3D3D20
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to=3D3D20
> > austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with
> > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to=3D3D20
> > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> --
> Carolyn Hart
>=3D3D20
>=3D3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to=3D3D20
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-=3D3D2=3D
0
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release =
Date:=3D3D20
> 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
>=3D3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date: =3D3D
2/04/2008
4:14 PM
=3D3D20
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D=3D
with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION =
=3D3D
modes)
go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Jill Nicholson" <jpnicho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: TWD course in Canberra
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:19:06 +1100
The Technical Writing and Documentation course in Canberra on the 9-10
April is full, but there will be one in late May - early June, date yet
to be finalised.
Anyone interested in this course please contact me.
Many thanks
Jill
Jill Nicholson
N&H Communications
2 Park Ave
ROSEVILLE, NSW 2069
61+2+94174302
jpnicho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.nhcommunications.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:37:05 +1100
From: Caz.H <cazhart@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Christine
Upon three seconds contemplation, it occurs to me that "Ms" is a
*problem* I
rarely need to "solve" these days, and the primary reason is technology
and
the lack of formality ushered in by such.
As much as I find that a lot of business correspondence has become
irksomely
informal and unprofessional, the courtesy of titles is becoming a rare
thing, even in hardcopy letters, and there's nothing that this little
black
duck can do to turn back the tides of change, so like everyone else I
almost
never use a person's title, verbally or in writing.
We still go through life having to tick the "title" box, whether online
or
on hardcopy forms, and that choice is self-selecting, so I always
respect
and use the title that a person wishes to use, including, of course, Ms.
I
would never even NOT use Ms if that is a woman's choice.
Boys, boys, boys - how could we forget that that you are only human?
Bruce - the dark alley fantasy might not be as fun as it sounds. ;-)
On 4/3/08, Bruce Ashley <bruce.ashley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> LOL
>
> "You deserve to spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
>
> <sigh>
>
> That has always been one of my dreams Christine.
>
> :D
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bruce
> (Who knew he wouldn't get away with it :))
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine
Kent
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:37 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>
> No reason for you taking offense, Caz, I was talking generally not
> specifically, and simply asking you how you solve the obvious problem
of
> Ms
> for yourself.
>
> As a mature age Ms, I can tell you I have no intention of anyone ever
> addressing me as MRS which, in my emotive value on language, denotes
> subservience and compliance - sorry to the married women out there,
but
> I
> would rather be thought of as a ball breaker, which I presume I
am.=3D3D2=3D
0
>
> And Bruce, this is not a woman's issue. Do not call woman "girls" and
> do
> not assume a disagreement between women is a cat fight. You deserve
to
> spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
>
> Christine
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> > Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:57 AM
> > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
> >=3D3D20
> > ck
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist
(now
> > capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be
> > interpreted as
> > me running away from the word feminist. I don't run away from "Ms"
> > because
> > I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people
say
> > anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision as
> > they
> > prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe about
> are
> > the
> > all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and so on.
> It's
> > a
> > fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have a
> > long
> > list hidden in my subconscious.
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > For married women who keep their own name, or mature women,
regardless
> > of
> > marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> > undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > Caz.H
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
> > >
> > > Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value we
> > give
> > > them.
> > >
> > > I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms
because
> > > someone
> > > else has ridiculed them.
> > >
> > > In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
> > overtones,
> > > and we can either keep running away from our abusers by inventing
> new
> > > words,
> > > or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss
should
> > be
> > > removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement
can
> > be
> > > made
> > > about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for
Ms
> > if you
> > > like, but make it mandatory.
> > >
> > > In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
> > themselves
> > > black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro. If
> > they
> > > wear
> > > the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of
> > abuse.
> > >
> > > The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are
afraid
> > to
> > > wear
> > > them with pride.
> > >
> > > ck
> > >
> > >
> > > > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always
will
> > be,
> > > > but
> > > > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
> > feminist
> > > > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title
for
> > all
> > > > women,
> > > > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the
hill",
> > or
> > > > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having
three
> > > > prefix
> > > > options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for
women,
> > nor
> > > > is
> > > > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> > > >
> > > > Caz.H
> > >
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> > 2/04/2008
> > > 4:14 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > **************************************************
> > > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to
> austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > with
> > > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and
VACATION
> > > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> > >
> > > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > **************************************************
> > >
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > --
> > Carolyn Hart
> >=3D3D20
> >=3D3D20
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >=3D3D20
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >=3D3D20
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >=3D3D20
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> > admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >=3D3D20
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> > 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
> >=3D3D20
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.=3D3D20
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008
> 4:14 PM
> =3D3D20
>
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>
########################################################################
#=3D3D
> ############
> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and
cleared =3D3D
>
> by NetIQ MailMarshal
>
########################################################################
#=3D3D
> ############
>
>
########################################################################
#=3D3D
> ############
> The information contained in this email communication may be
confidential=3D3D
> .
> You should only read, disclose, re-transmit, copy, distribute, act in
rel=3D3D
> iance
> on or commercialise the information if you are authorised to do so. If
yo=3D3D
> u are not
> the intended recipient of this email communication, please notify us
imme=3D3D
> diately by
> email to administrator@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or reply by email direct to
the s=3D3D
> ender and=3D3D20
> then destroy any electronic or paper copy of this message. Any views
expr=3D3D
> essed in=3D3D20
> this email communication are those of the individual sender, except
where=3D3D
> =3D3D20the sender=3D3D20
> specifically states them to be the views of Wridgways The
Removalists.=3D3DA0=3D3D
> =3D3D20Any personal=3D3D20
> information in this email must be handled in accordance with the
Privacy =3D3D
> Act 1988=3D3D20
> (Cth). Wridgways The Removalists does not represent, warrant or
guarantee=3D3D
> =3D3D20that the=3D3D20
> integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the
communic=3D3D
> ation is=3D3D20
> free of errors, virus or interference.
>
########################################################################
#=3D3D
> ############
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with
> "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>
--=3D20
Carolyn Hart
------------------------------
From: "Christine Kent" <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:17:05 +1100
Unfortunately, I often find myself filling out forms. All utilities,
business correspondence etc, require a form of address.
Also, because I am living rurally I do a lot of mail order shopping, and
while I would be very happy with no form of address, they usually insist
on
it. I sometimes send them up by insisting on "sister" - that tends to
cause
a bit of a flurry and their manners to improve 100 fold. It's amazing
how
the tone of voice and level of helpfulness change when they think you
are a
nun.=3D20
I recently opened an English bank account, and they insisted on marital
status, including options like spinster (yes they used that word),
separated
or divorced. It was a mandatory field.
Perhaps we could change all forms of address from the current
M(r/rs/iss/s)
to Bro and Sis. ;-)
ck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 3:37 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
>=3D20
> Christine
> Upon three seconds contemplation, it occurs to me that "Ms" is a
> *problem* I
> rarely need to "solve" these days, and the primary reason is
technology
> and
> the lack of formality ushered in by such.
>=3D20
> As much as I find that a lot of business correspondence has become
> irksomely
> informal and unprofessional, the courtesy of titles is becoming a rare
> thing, even in hardcopy letters, and there's nothing that this little
> black
> duck can do to turn back the tides of change, so like everyone else I
> almost
> never use a person's title, verbally or in writing.
>=3D20
> We still go through life having to tick the "title" box, whether
online
> or
> on hardcopy forms, and that choice is self-selecting, so I always
> respect
> and use the title that a person wishes to use, including, of course,
> Ms. I
> would never even NOT use Ms if that is a woman's choice.
>=3D20
> Boys, boys, boys - how could we forget that that you are only human?
>=3D20
> Bruce - the dark alley fantasy might not be as fun as it sounds. ;-)
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On 4/3/08, Bruce Ashley <bruce.ashley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > LOL
> >
> > "You deserve to spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
> >
> > <sigh>
> >
> > That has always been one of my dreams Christine.
> >
> > :D
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bruce
> > (Who knew he wouldn't get away with it :))
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine
> Kent
> > Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 12:37 PM
> > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
> >
> > No reason for you taking offense, Caz, I was talking generally not
> > specifically, and simply asking you how you solve the obvious
problem
> of
> > Ms
> > for yourself.
> >
> > As a mature age Ms, I can tell you I have no intention of anyone
ever
> > addressing me as MRS which, in my emotive value on language, denotes
> > subservience and compliance - sorry to the married women out there,
> but
> > I
> > would rather be thought of as a ball breaker, which I presume I
> am.=3D3D20
> >
> > And Bruce, this is not a woman's issue. Do not call woman "girls"
> and
> > do
> > not assume a disagreement between women is a cat fight. You deserve
> to
> > spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of Ms's.
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-
> > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Caz.H
> > > Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2008 10:57 AM
> > > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: atw: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
> > >=3D3D20
> > > ck
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > Given that I've already unambiguously stated that I am a Feminist
> (now
> > > capitalised!), I've no idea which part of my comment could be
> > > interpreted as
> > > me running away from the word feminist. I don't run away from
"Ms"
> > > because
> > > I've heard anyone ridicule the title, in fact I don't think people
> say
> > > anything about it really, other than offering a form of derision
as
> > > they
> > > prolong the "s" when verbally addressing someone as "Ms".
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > The only other feminist terms that come to mind that I cringe
about
> > are
> > > the
> > > all too silly variations on "women", such as "wimmin", and so on.
> > It's
> > > a
> > > fatuous effort. There might be some others, but can't say I have
a
> > > long
> > > list hidden in my subconscious.
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > For married women who keep their own name, or mature women,
> regardless
> > > of
> > > marital status, I prefer Mrs as a more respectful gesture than the
> > > undignified & ambiguous "Ms".
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > Caz.H
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > On 4/3/08, Christine Kent <c.bkent@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, as a feminist, what title do you use?
> > > >
> > > > Words only have the meaning we give them and the emotive value
we
> > > give
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > I, for one, will not run away from the words feminist or Ms
> because
> > > > someone
> > > > else has ridiculed them.
> > > >
> > > > In our sexist society, feminist words will always take on ugly
> > > overtones,
> > > > and we can either keep running away from our abusers by
inventing
> > new
> > > > words,
> > > > or take the words on board. Personally I believe Mrs and Miss
> should
> > > be
> > > > removed from all forms so there is no choice and so no judgement
> can
> > > be
> > > > made
> > > > about the marital status of the woman. Invent a replacement for
> Ms
> > > if you
> > > > like, but make it mandatory.
> > > >
> > > > In the same way, I think people of African descent should call
> > > themselves
> > > > black the same way Australian aboriginals have, or even negro.
> If
> > > they
> > > > wear
> > > > the badge with pride themselves, no-one can use it as a term of
> > > abuse.
> > > >
> > > > The feminist words have become terms of abuse because we are
> afraid
> > > to
> > > > wear
> > > > them with pride.
> > > >
> > > > ck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As for "Ms" - ugh! I'm a feminist, always have been, always
> will
> > > be,
> > > > > but
> > > > > "Ms" has persisted as one of the clunkiest and most insulting
> > > feminist
> > > > > symbols ever inflicted on women. In lieu of a singular title
> for
> > > all
> > > > > women,
> > > > > "Ms" is a neon sign that screeches "unmarried and over the
> hill",
> > > or
> > > > > "married ball-breaker", and so on. It's not neutral. Having
> three
> > > > > prefix
> > > > > options for women didn't neutralise or equalise titles for
> women,
> > > nor
> > > > > is
> > > > > "Ms" the equivalent of "Mr". "Ms" is also plain ugly!
> > > > >
> > > > > Caz.H
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> > > 2/04/2008
> > > > 4:14 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > **************************************************
> > > > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > > > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to
> > austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > with
> > > > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> > > >
> > > > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and
> VACATION
> > > > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> > > >
> > > > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > > > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > **************************************************
> > > >
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > --
> > > Carolyn Hart
> > >=3D3D20
> > >=3D3D20
> > > **************************************************
> > > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> > >=3D3D20
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-
> request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> > >=3D3D20
> > > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and
> VACATION
> > > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> > >=3D3D20
> > > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-
> > > admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > **************************************************
> > >=3D3D20
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> > > 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
> > >=3D3D20
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG.=3D3D20
> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> > 2/04/2008
> > 4:14 PM
> > =3D3D20
> >
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >
>
#######################################################################
> ##=3D3D
> > ############
> > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and
> cleared =3D3D
> >
> > by NetIQ MailMarshal
> >
>
#######################################################################
> ##=3D3D
> > ############
> >
> >
>
#######################################################################
> ##=3D3D
> > ############
> > The information contained in this email communication may be
> confidential=3D3D
> > .
> > You should only read, disclose, re-transmit, copy, distribute, act
in
> rel=3D3D
> > iance
> > on or commercialise the information if you are authorised to do so.
> If yo=3D3D
> > u are not
> > the intended recipient of this email communication, please notify us
> imme=3D3D
> > diately by
> > email to administrator@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or reply by email direct to
> the s=3D3D
> > ender and=3D3D20
> > then destroy any electronic or paper copy of this message. Any views
> expr=3D3D
> > essed in=3D3D20
> > this email communication are those of the individual sender, except
> where=3D3D
> > =3D3D20the sender=3D3D20
> > specifically states them to be the views of Wridgways The
> Removalists.=3D3DA0=3D3D
> > =3D3D20Any personal=3D3D20
> > information in this email must be handled in accordance with the
> Privacy =3D3D
> > Act 1988=3D3D20
> > (Cth). Wridgways The Removalists does not represent, warrant or
> guarantee=3D3D
> > =3D3D20that the=3D3D20
> > integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the
> communic=3D3D
> > ation is=3D3D20
> > free of errors, virus or interference.
> >
>
#######################################################################
> ##=3D3D
> > ############
> > **************************************************
> > To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> > www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to
austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with
> > "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
> >
> > To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> > modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
> >
> > To contact the list administrator, send a message to
> > austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > **************************************************
> >
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> --
> Carolyn Hart
>=3D20
>=3D20
> **************************************************
> To view the austechwriter archives, go to
> www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
>=3D20
> To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
> modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
>=3D20
> To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-
> admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> **************************************************
>=3D20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
> 2/04/2008 4:14 PM
>=3D20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.=3D20
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1356 - Release Date:
2/04/2008
4:14 PM
=3D20
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Burnfield" <slb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sexist or not sexist? [SEC=3D3DUNCLASSIFIED]
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:18:18 +0800
> You deserve to spend an hour in a dark alley with a gang of =
Ms's=3D3D2E
This being a list for tech writers and editors, I assume Christine is
referring to a gang of manuscripts=3D3D2E
Stuart
------------------------------
End of austechwriter Digest V6 #83
**********************************
########################################################################
#=3D
#
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: Please consider our environment before printing
thi=3D
s
email.This email and any attachments are confidential and may be subject
=3D
to
copyright, legal or some other professional privilege. They are intended
solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). They may
only=3D
be copied, distributed or disclosed with the consent of the copyright
own=3D
er.
If you have received this email by mistake or by breach of the=3D20
confidentiality clause, please notify the sender immediately by return
email and delete or destroy all copies of the email. Any
confidentiality,=3D
privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this email has been
sent to you by mistake.=3D20
########################################################################
#=3D
#
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION
modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
**************************************************
To view the austechwriter archives, go to
www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter
To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
"unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes).
To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION modes) go
to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter
To contact the list administrator, send a message to
austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
**************************************************
Other related posts:
