[amc] Re: a request
- From: Wilson Tan <wilsonhptan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Austin Mennonite Church <amc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:32:28 -0600
Hi all,
I don't know Bonnie either but I did have a good chat with her when our
paths crossed during the planning stages of the CPT "Shine the Light"
campaign. (No, she is not a CPTer.) I found her earnest, eclectic and,
well, possessing general qualities of a grassroots activist. To her
credit, she did call for an open meeting to discuss her project this
evening, Thursday, Jan. 19, 7:30pm, at Central Presbyterian Church. Her
"credentials," besides the current www.opposetorture.org, is the Billboard
Project: http://thebillboardproject.blogs.com, which she also funded and, I
believe, received good billings in the Austin Chronicle. FYI, she is coming
from a humanitarian and moral standpoint, not faith-based motivations.
I can most definitely see how a historical peace church finds the message
lacking and without teeth. It is probably akin to FOR hanging a "Violence
is Wrong" banner, the UN endorsing "Division is Bad" or Ten Thousand
Villages saying "Unfair Trade is Wrong." Yes, the duh factor. Hmm... I
wonder what the mainline churches think about this "Torture is Wrong" on
their property.
However, if she is indeed successful in getting (many) other faith groups
(left, central, right, etc.) in Austin to hang the banner, who knows what
impact or dialogue we might be part of? *Shrug* Her request is essentially
for real estate for a project she'll fully fund. Plus, it is capitalizing
on the torture issue being in the spotlight "thanks" to the Iraq occupation.
From our church publicity perspective, we are unique in rejecting all
violence though I seriously think less than 1% (ok, maybe 6% given this
city's leanings) of Austin knows what that stance means, much less about
Mennonites. Perhaps the most we can hope for (Ray's scenario) is that such
a banner serves as a thought starter for curious/clueless/aggravated
passer-bys to inquire (in person) further about our stance. Though, come to
think of it, we haven't really gotten much questions about our peace pole. :
)
I think there is not much harm in endorsing the banner though I wonder how
much good it might bring. Perhaps it is a zero sum exercise. : )
Hope this helps. Other thoughts?
Best,
Wilson
> From: Ray Gingerich <RGingerich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:43:36 -0600
> To: Steve Friesen <Friesen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, garland robertson
> <pastor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Austin Mennonite Church <amc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [amc] Re: a request
>
> Steve,
>
> You might be right--that people might think we are a bunch of pinko commies
> that are against everything our government stands for. Frankly, I would
> prefer that to the alternative thoughts about us that Garland suggests.
>
> I don't know anything about Bonnie Tamres-Moore, and the peaceniks I hang
> out with don't know her either. Nor do I know what her objective is or her
> motivation for her banner campaign. But, I did offer her an opinion that the
> message may have the unintended consequences. This is what I sent:
>
> I suppose that there are people that are so morally depraved or unaware that
> the "Torture is Wrong" message may cause them to stop and think, "Hmmm, some
> people think torture is Wrong," I need to consider the merits of that idea.
> I may be the naive one--possibly the message could influence passersby in a
> positive manner. I am open to being convinced of that.
>
> Some possible unintended consequences:
>
> To put up a banner in front of a religious establishment announcing that
> "Torture is Wrong" seems to me analogous to the bumper sticker "I love my
> wife." Why would anyone need to announce that. Every time I read that
> sticker, I am embarrassed for the person displaying it. Of course you love
> your wife. Similarly: of course torture is wrong. Why would you need to
> announce that. I would hope most people reading such a banner at a religious
> establishment would think, (beyond frank, now blunt): "duh, what a radical
> message that place is promoting--maybe I will stop in to see what other
> progressive ideas they have."
>
> Some possible actions:
>
> 1) we might do a little poll of people who are likely to see the banner in
> front of AMC
>
> 2) we might assume that most people will interpret it as Steve hopes
>
> 3) we might assume that most people will interpret it as Ray fears
>
> 4) we might put up the banner with an additional message: "Of course torture
> is wrong. We believe that ALL violence is wrong!"
>
> 5) or simply: "All Violence is Wrong"
>
> 5) or possibly a positive message: "Our community embraces the non-violence
> of MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, and Jesus."
>
> 6) or something else
>
> Ray
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Friesen" <Friesen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "garland robertson" <pastor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Austin Mennonite Church"
> <amc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:52 PM
> Subject: [amc] Re: a request
>
>
>> Dear y'all,
>>
>> Garland sent out this note a while back and I don't think there was any
>> discussion on the list. So I thought I'd put out my 2 cents worth on it,
>> before Feb. rolls around.
>>
>> 1) I don't know the woman who's organizing it (Bonnie Tamres-Moore), so I
>> don't know if that's a factor. Is she a known quantity? And if so, known
>> in a positive way?
>>
>> 2) As to the banner itself, I would personally be in favor of it. I put
>> myself in the place of the victims: in their place, would I want American
>> churches taking a clear stand against the torture? I would. I don't
>> think
>> people driving by will assume that we're *only* against torture. I'd
>> guess
>> they're more likely to think that we're pinko commie traitors who are
>> against everything our government is doing. I'm willing to risk that. An
>> additional factor for me: I think Americans are being much too passive
>> about
>> the evil deeds being done in our name, funded by our taxes. Being visible
>> is important in times like these.
>>
>> 3) I hesitated putting my opinion out like this because I don't want to
>> shut
>> off discussion. I'd like to hear from many others so that we can come to
>> satisfactory decision that honors our faith and our love for each other.
>> My
>> opinion may not be the right one for our common building. I won't be
>> offended if we decide that we should not take part in the banner campaign.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: garland robertson <pastor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:34:38 -0600
>>> To: Austin Mennonite Church <amc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [amc] a request
>>>
>>> Members and Friends of Austin Mennonite Church
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a part of a local campaign during the month of Feb, I have been asked
>>> that the church consider placing a banner in front of our building which
>>> states, 'Torture is wrong.' The person promoting this project is seeking
>>> the participation of numerous faith communities in Austin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I responded in a visit with this person by explaining the historical
>>> witness
>>> the Mennonite church has maintained as a peace church which condemns all
>>> forms of violence. I explained that persons in our faith community have
>>> been tortured, even killed because of their witness of the instruction of
>>> Jesus that we love others as we love ourselves. Of course we are against
>>> torture, yet it is only one particular form of many violent behaviors
>>> that
>>> are being used in order to impose the will of the more powerful upon
>>> those
>>> who have little or no strength. I then suggested that we would likely
>>> not
>>> display the banner because we desire that our faith community maintain
>>> the
>>> traditional position that all forms of violence dishonor the character of
>>> relationship that God has intended for the human family. I wanted to
>>> make
>>> it clear that 'non-violence' and 'Mennonite' are synonymous terms: we
>>> believe there is always an alternative to using violence to resolve any
>>> conflict. Also I discussed how important it is not only to represent
>>> consistently the way of Jesus as our central focus but also to avoid the
>>> tendency simply to react to issues which routinely arise in national and
>>> world affairs. I concluded my discussion by relating that we would
>>> consider
>>> this opportunity together before deciding how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know my perspective may be very different from that of other persons in
>>> the Austin Mennonite Church. Maybe I am too occupied with the concept
>>> that
>>> finally I am part of a community who does not have to distinguish between
>>> the forms of violence it supports and the forms it opposes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please reflect on this request and share your thoughts and feelings with
>>> one
>>> another. Use the list serve address if you are comfortable or you may
>>> share
>>> your thoughts with others privately. If there is a clear consensus on
>>> how
>>> we believe the Mennonite witness will be more effectively advanced, then
>>> we
>>> will proceed accordingly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> May it go well with you. Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Garland Robertson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ...always hold firmly to the thought that each one of us can do something
>>> to
>>> bring some portion of misery to an end
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -------
>> Austin Mennonite Church, (512) 926-3121 www.mennochurch.org
>> To unsubscribe: use subject "unsubscribe" sent to
>> amc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -------
> Austin Mennonite Church, (512) 926-3121 www.mennochurch.org
> To unsubscribe: use subject "unsubscribe" sent to amc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
-------
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