Didn't realise Graham that the makers of Guide do use the words 'screen reader' in their marketing, and as you say this is rather misleading, though probably not intentionally so. Think its just an example of lose thinking and wording on their part. If we were splitting hairs discussing this subject, it could be said that System Access isn't, properly speaking, a 'screen reader'. I believe Windows access in that case isn't strictly linked to what's being displayed on the screen, or happening in video memory. (Much the same can be said of the MSAA buffer used in internet browsing.) Still I've no wish to try and bog the list down here with what many will regard as semantics or at least deeply technical issues which run counter to this lists main business which, these days, is a sort of 'fix it' questions and answers forum, which is of course useful. Still, such nice points as discussing what Guide is and isn't do have their place. Maybe it should be called a suite of self voicing applications if it is accuracy we're after. To my mind we are all too often encumbered by clumsy use of language, such as things being a "technology" when someone has devised a program that's little more than an extension of what already exists. Still, its cool to use the T word. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Graham Page Hi Ray. I would agree with you and say that really it is a program of last resort for the truely computerphobic who will not ever use anything else. I can understand Tracey's confusion however. I went to the Software Express website and clicked on a more about version 4.0 link. The following is taken from there. What is Guide? GUIDE is an all-in-one computer package, for people who are blind or partially sighted. It has been specifically designed to be easy-to-use and easy-to-learn. So it doesn't matter if you've never used a computer before, GUIDE will help you to achieve the results you want. GUIDE has its own in-built screen reader, so it will read out the text on every screen, even while you're typing. It also has its own in-built screen magnifier, so you can enlarge the text on every screen, whether you are writing a letter or surfing the Internet. And what's more, GUIDE requires very little training, so most people can easily teach themselves how to use it. This is because GUIDE uses easy-to-follow menu options for each task, which are controlled via the keyboard and displayed on uncluttered screens. If you are stuck, a Help Page can be accessed from any screen, to give you extra advice and support. This is ambiguous and confusing to say the least. I also read guide's claims to be able to do all things on the internet with some doubts. Using the internet is not for anyone who cannot spend time putting in practice. How can it be possible to quickly and efficiently navigate all sites with just 3 keys? The more features you get, the more it becomes like any computer anyway which can do all of those things with, say, System Access and a scanner which costs a similar price but which is more upgradable. Is Guide really that easy? Can you get demo versions to try? Regards Graham Graham Page Home Phone: 0207 265 9493 Mobile: 07753 607980 Fax: 0870 706 2773 Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx Skype: gabriel_mcbird ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: screen reader called Guide Tracey, I don't know if it helps much to say that I think Guide - which isn't a screen reader really, more self voicing apps - tends to be good for those who tend to be computer phobic and maybe not wishing to become too adventurous in the use of their machines. Guide does put people in a sort of safe walled garden environment, even to the existent that they cannot alt-tab out of the application and into the big bad world of Windows. Has to be admitted though that for its intended target market it is probably a much less challenging way of using a computer, even if that is at the expense of flexibility. I believe the IT for All project, funded by the Guide Cats Cds, is keen to show this to some new users, along with the more economical offerings such as System Access and some free packages. For someone who is totally blind, System Access maybe a very viable alternative. Guide has magnification, as well as good speech support, but, I repeat, it isn't a screen reader. From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Spring.flower Hi Has anyone heard of this and if so, how good do you think it is? Also how much is it? Any information would be much appreciated. I have a friend who's getting her first computer and she's heard about this software. Trace ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq