[Wittrs] Dualism Cooties: Stuart's Own Diagnostic Process

  • From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:38:18 -0500

SWM wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>For the record, the argument which I have made before and with which I
>think Dennett is in accord based on that text, goes rather like this:

>1) If you think consciousness cannot be broken down to non-conscious
>constituents, then you are a Cartesian Dualist.

>2) The only way to think that the CR implies that no similarly
>constituted system can be conscious is to think that consciousness
>cannot be broken down to non-conscious constituents.

>3) Searle thinks that the CR implies that no system with the same kind
>of consitutents as the CR can be conscious.

>4) Therefore Searle is a Cartesian Dualist.

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wittrs/message/4550

>you may want to bear in mind that my position is not premised on
>Dennett's claims since I came to it after reading Searle, but before
>reading Dennett.

okay, so this is *your* argument based on reading Searle. so, when asked
for your basis for saying this or that, you should be able to cite
Searle rather than Dennett.

in (2) and (3), you're a little vague on which meaning of implies you
are invoking. for each of those statements, are you using 'implies' to
mean 'logically entails a conclusion' or to mean 'logically requires a
presumption' or something else?

hopefully, you can clarify those points while I comment on (1).

(1) is dubious.

it seems to me that anyone who is not a reductive physicalist believes
that consciousness cannot be broken down to non-conscious constituents;
and, that would include emergent physicalists, property dualists,
panpsychists among others; so, unless you can show that all of these
positions are logically equivalent to Cartesian (interactive substance)
dualism, premise (1) is false.

Joe


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Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware

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