[Wittrs] Dualism Cooties: Ontologically Basic Ambiguity: Identicality

  • From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:53:54 -0400

SWM wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>by the Law of Indiscernibility of Identicals, the afterimage can not
>>be identical to the brain which causes it.

>We've already been all over this identicals stuff in earlier posts. And
>I've told you why that isn't relevant.

for those who came in late:

the Law of Indiscernibility of Identicals (attributed to Leibniz) states
that if x and y are identical then they have the same set of properties.

if the brain causes an afterimage it can't be identical to that
afterimage because the brain the property of being able to cause
afterimages; a property that afterimages themselves lack. more
generally, if the brain causes consciousness it can't be identical to

Stuart's previous attempt to deal with this issue amounts to redefining
'identical' so that it can mean 'identical and/or non-identical'.

>>since the afterimage is not itself a physical object, it must have a
>>different mode of existence --- it is an experiencer dependent

>Different modes of existence have nothing to do with different causes
>or lines of descent.

>>if the brain and the afterimage have different modes of existence,
>>they are each ontologically basic --- but in different ways.

>The only way that counts in the discussion about dualism is the one
>that asks whether we can ascribe all phenomenon to the same physical

Searle says 'yes'.

as you well know, he says that the brain causes consciousness.

consequently, there is no basis for claiming that Searle is an
interactive substance dualist. Searle is only alleging that there is one
substance or kind of object, physical objects.

on the other hand, the fact that the brain can cause both measurable
effects and experienceable effects suggests that Searle could be a
property dualist.



Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware



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