[Wittrs] Consciousness, QM and the Vacuous Question

  • From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:08:35 -0500

Cayuse wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>Cayuse wrote:

>Suarez writes:

><begin quote>
>I also think that 'determinism' (on the part of Nature) would be a more
>appropriate name for the concept denoted "realism" in [1]. In any case,
>to avoid confusion one should clearly distinguish between "realism" as
>used in [1], and "realism" as the view that the "collapse of the wave
>function" can happen without the presence of a conscious human
>observer. The before-before experiment has proved that nonlocal choices
>happen in Nature, and in this sense refuted "realism" as defined in
>[1]. The independence of quantum measurement from the presence of human
>consciousness has not been proved wrong by any experiment to date.
><end quote>

>In the last paragraph quoted above, Suarez rejects the idea of
>"realism" described as "the results of observations are a consequence
>of pre-existing properties carried by physical systems"

correct so far.

>in favor of the idea of "realism" described as "the view that the
>'collapse of the wave function' can happen *without the presence of a
>conscious human observer*" (emphasis added) -- i.e. the *independence*
>of quantum measurement from the presence of human consciousness.

there is no basis for the belief that only an objective reduction theory
is supported by an experiment that only ruled out hidden variable
theories.

>So it doesn't sound to me like Suarez is supporting the view that
>consciousness /causes/ the collapse of the wave function, but rather
>that the idea of causation breaks down at the quantum level.

the rejection of hidden variable theories is precisely what makes
measurement a causal influence. the observer is not just 'perceiving'
the value the particle already has. the observer interacts with the
observed in the act of observation, *causing* the particle to take on a
single definite value for the property being measured --- where before
the observation the particle had no definite value for that property.

Joe


--

Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware

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