ESX sounds like a great way to run serious vitualised machinery. For now, the regular free VMW server is enough for me and my testing. _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Mangan Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:40 PM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization VMWare ESX (the one you pay for that has better performance) is really it's own OS that runs as the base OS, from what I am told. The console part is what runs on linux. The installer confuses most people on that. You install linux as the base OS on a system, then install ESX. Ultimately, the private ESX ends up as the base OS and you end up with original base linux with the ESX console being the first virtual guest OS. Kind-of funky, but it does provide for better performance than virtualizing on top of a general purpose OS. This is different than for VMWare Workstation or the new free Server product, which run on top of the base OS, like the MS VPC/VS products. The Xen approach allows for even better performance due to it's para-virtualization technique - which basically means making changes inside the guest OS to streamline down to the hardware with less overhead. It's just that you need to make source changes to the guest OS, it isn't a matter of dropping in an additional device driver. Unfortunately, I make my living by fixing problems with MS Oss so there is no draw to me for Xen. tim From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sorin Srbu Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:44 AM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization Xen only runs in *nix then? I'll google for it. 8-) I'm getting intolinux, so a good VM-interface would be nice. VMware runs on linux too, or so I hear. _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Mangan Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:24 PM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization I have done linux and free bsd on MS VS. Also 2k on VMWare. Although it has been reported as been done, my understanding is that Xen doesn't to MS OSs (for most of us) as you need source kernel changes. I am very hot on both MSVS and VMWare for my test lab, where no more than one machine is really loaded at a time. A multi-user production environment is something I would not consider without a good pilot first. Tim From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sorin Srbu Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:26 AM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization Dual-cores and dual-cpus are great for virtualisation! I have a amd x2/4400. It's awesome when running the virtual machines. I also have 2GB ram installed, would need another 2... Runs fine/ok now though with about 3-4 VMs. Bigger experimental setups would need more ram. In my environment and my opinions: Xen: Demon on speed in a rush. Runs all OSes I know of. Never tried this though, but hear it's good. MS VS: Speed demon. Runs all windows-versions. Doesn't do anything *nix AFAIK. VMWare VS: Slightly slower than MS's VS. Better interface though (tabbed). Doesn't run Win2k (at least mine doesn't, refuses install for some reason). Does everything *nix. I have both MS and VMW VMs installed. HTH. _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Daniel Ensor Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:39 PM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization I have an old citrix server which has a couple of gbs of RAM but only a few p3 1.8's in. I was thinking of using that, would that do? When talking software which is the best I know MS do virtual server and then there's VMWARE. Any recommendations? _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angus Macdonald Sent: 22 August 2006 12:31 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization If you can rake together the hardware (it doesn't have to be high spec for testing but lots of memory is a good idea) it's worth doing, especially now that decent virtualisation software is available for free. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Ensor [mailto:densor@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 22 August 2006 12:11 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization The way I see it is that it's kind of going back to how it was when hardware was really expensive, so you had to have one server running multiple apps/roles. Then when hardware got cheaper, esp discs and memory, all the roles were split up to single machines, at least in my experience. I guess I still have a slight fear about running a lot on one machine, (I know the machines are hardly comparable with then and have redundant discs/power/nics etc), but I really could do with getting one running as I said for a lab machine with a citrix box and a few other bits and bobs like WSUS etc. Thanks for the info. _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angus Macdonald Sent: 22 August 2006 11:58 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization We run a couple of low-use Citrix servers (<5 users but a very fussy app), a PDC and BDC for a legacy NT4 domain, pairs of servers (on different physical hosts) supporting various in-house developed systems and a variety of similar machines. I would be happy to run mission-critical servers on VMWare now that I have more experience and confidence in it but all of our critcal systems are heavy-use. On the desktop I use VirtualPC to run all sorts of legacy machines for software testing and development. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Ensor [mailto:densor@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 22 August 2006 11:39 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization So you're running non mission critical servers, I like the idea of virtual servers but most of ours have mission critical apps on. I like the idea for lab machines though! Cool. _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angus Macdonald Sent: 22 August 2006 11:30 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization The physical servers have lots of built-in redundancy and I wouldn't class any of thevirtual servers as enterprise-critical. In the event of a physical failure I can copy the important ones back from tape (each server is only a handful of files) to another server (I have a lower-spec server for development) and bring them back within a few minutes. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Ensor [mailto:densor@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 21 August 2006 15:00 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization What happens though if a server fails? Haven't you put all your eggs in a few baskets? _____ From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angus Macdonald Sent: 21 August 2006 12:42 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT - Virtualization I've got a couple of beefy Quad-Xeon, 12GB RAM machines running about 30 servers in total. The main benefits are I can provision low-use servers without wasting hardware and I can provision them quickly, typically less than 10 minutes from deciding it's needed to having it available on the domain for use. They are also easy to backup and move to another host in the event of a hardware failure, although I've yet to have one. Running VMWare GSX 3. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Leach [mailto:rleach@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: 18 August 2006 21:27 To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] OT - Virtualization Just curious... How many of you are now using either server virtualization or storage virtualization (or both)? If you are using it, what benefits have you seen? If not, do you plan to use it anytime soon? Again, just curious. TIA Ron Visit the new FDL web - site designed to serve you better- http://www.fdl.co.uk This message has been sent from Fuerst Day Lawson Ltd and confirms that the email has been scanned and to the best of our knowledge is free from virus infection. The unauthorised use, disclosure, forwarding or copying of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please email moderator@xxxxxxxxx This message and any attachments, which are confidential and may be privileged, are for the use of the addressee(s) only. The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the author's own and may not reflect the views and opinions of Fuerst Day Lawson Ltd.