Jim you need to learn a lesson from this guy, he knows how to rant. The real lesson here is you can't make every body happy. Come up with any scenario and there is always some flaw. What you try to do is handle as many people as possible. Look at Jesus example: Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." He didn't try to make everybody happy, he wanted to save as many people as possible. I use this metaphor to prove that you can't even use a metaphor without making some people upset. :-) I'll save my rants for things that matter. Gunnar -----Original Message----- From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:46 AM To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: I've Had it with Outlook The below text is more open source vs. BEING PAID FOR YOUR WORK, but I've decided that this is the quote of the year. This was posted in a private forum, so I'll let the person remain anonymous, I suppose. Quote of the year: You seem to have been infected with the touchy feely good virus. Microsoft is a corporation whose principal goal is to maximize shareholder value, period. It's really unfortunate that you and everyone in the open source "community" have forgotten that IBM used to do exactly the same things to its competitors. Now apparently IBM is the darling of these people because they have embraced Linux. I'm sure they did that just to be "moral" and "help" everyone. In the alternate universe of "free-as-in-whatever-actually-i'm-just-cheap" I'm sure that morals and value systems are in high regard. In the real world however, they play second fiddle to profits. You are more than free to disagree with this, but that's reality. If I were an MSFT shareholder (which I'm not) I'd be pissed if Bill Gates suddenly declared he was going to "share" the Windows code with everyone, make a 1 billion grant to the FSF and retire to a cave to meditate with Richard Stallman. As a developer, I have nothing but respect for the core group of people who churn out things like Apache, GNOME, KDE, Mozilla and Linux itself. And like you, I think that there *is* room for both Linux and Windows in the world. But their stupid promethean stance of "see? see how the Evil One attacks us? Poor us, we are sooo good and moral and wouldn't hurt a fly!" is at best hypocritical and at worst cynical and evidential of deeper problems with their world view. But to me, open source is not something I'd like to get into, it's something that will pressure Microsoft into being better. So I'd rather they just get on with it and try to take over the world. On the basis of quality alone they're 90% screwed. And having used Linux and BSD extensively, I think I know what I'm talking about. Ever try to install a font on Linux? OS X is what Linux wants to be when it grows up, but they're too proud to change so they're screwed there too. They certainly seem incapable of innovating anyway. Open source has two very basic problems. One, they are way too full of themselves. *They* think they do things better than anyone else (especially Microsoft), so I think it's funny that you'd accuse Microsoft of the same sin. They are *never* wrong. They hold the moral high-ground. This of course is a weakness in itself and a problem whenever a new vulnerability is disclosed in their software. "What? No, that's unpossible! It must be M$ fault!!" Have you ever read LinuxSecurity.com? My god, these people can't hold a candle to everything that happens with Windows. Can you imagine what would happen if they went mainstream? If they held even 5% of the desktop market? Frankly, I'd rather not even think about it. Second, no one has absolutely any interest in anything beyond "cool". "Cool" does not make the business world go round. This, coupled with the unfortunate and stupid duplication of effort, forked projects, flame wars, their own massive doses of what they call "FUD" and so on proves to me that they are as bad if not worse then Microsoft, but at least Microsoft doesn't try to bullshit me other than by taking my money. Microsoft doesn't pretend they're nice, and I don't want them to be. I just want to make my apps work for my clients and get on with life. And for 10+ years that's been the case. Do you really want to sign up with a religion (because that's what the look like more and more) that half the time can't make up their minds whether something is "more free" or "less free"? That somehow came to the conclusion that giving away software was a moral imperative instead of an altruistic gesture? That until before you wrote this post considered you part of an "evil empire" because you create software that isn't given away? Or even worse, whose charter members spend more time attacking each other and pushing agendas that according to them are diametrically opposed yet for the average outside observer just seem like more of the same radical "join us or die" extremism? Believe me, this is not a crowd I'd want to do business with, ever. Oh, and I take offense at your assertion that Microsoft doesn't innovate. That is probably the single most parroted line that FOSS zealots like to hold up as proof that they absolutely rule, right after "Microsoft BOB" Har, har. What do you consider innovation? GNOME and KDE (badly) copying the Windows shell? XMMS copying Winamp? Evolution copying Outlook? KDevelop copying Visual Studio? I mean, I think Eclipse is impressive, but so is VS.NET, frankly. Microsoft has innovated *far* more than most open source projects put together. It's just that they don't come out with Napster or ICQ or The Next Big Thing, but then neither does GNU. I'll give you an example: MS bought part of what eventually became Visual Studio from a French company. Do you think it has gotten better since 1.0? "Booo-hoo, Microsoft buys companies and repackages their innovations as their own" Of goddamn course they do. What the hell is wrong with that? Can you sit there and claim that SQL Server is not an innovation because it was based on Sybase? Or IE6-Spyglass/Mosaic? FrontPage? Surely since Gates bought BASIC and MS-DOS then Longhorn is by definition a piece of crap, right? Of course! Then again, if Microsoft came out with a Photoshop killer they wouldn't be praised for their innovation, they'd be accused of monopolistic strong-arming. Software in the Windows platform is driven by commercial need, not the need to scratch an itch. Microsoft developers don't sit there listening to Nirvana and code whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to. *Surely* that must make them inferior to all open source developers, and by extension their code must suck as well. You are more than welcome to turn in your badge on the way out. Honestly, I have a relationship with Microsoft from which I have profited greatly and I intend to keep it that way, MVP or no. I have no interest in them suddenly turning to Mother SoftTeresa, I want them to make sure that the dominant software platform is and continues to be Windows. Right now, I would be perfectly capable of doing a 360 and starting to write applications in Java or Python on Linux or BSD. But you see, I don't want to. I'd rather take my chances with a company that at least is honest about being ruthless than with the FOSS crowd, being gobbled up by Novell and the like. So *what* if they funded SCO? Given 1/2 the chance, everyone from Oracle to CA to IBM to Sun would have done exactly the same thing. If you think otherwise you're just delusional. ********************************************************************************************************** The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. Distribution, publication, or retransmission of this message is strictly prohibited. This message may be a bank to client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. 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