[windows2000] Re: IIS on a domain controller

  • From: Aaron Dokey <adokey@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:54:10 -0400

I'm more than used to microsoft patch cycle, everything exists already out
there... I just need/want to get converted to an AD domain and don't have
the extra hardware.  Running IIS of any version is a full-time job, that's
for dang sure.

There is in fact, no clients other than web clients, and they will not be
doing anything other than regular HHTP auth over SSL.  The only machines
that have direct access to these machines without any kind of nat or
firewall are the other machines in the DMZ themselves.  I shoot anything
with a shotgun if it's placed in the DMZ without my knowledge.  :)

My concerns are more with web/http based attacks, i.e. what additional
things does this make easier to compromise?  I assume that my production
DC's on other subnets would then be vulnerable somehow because of the trusts
between the domains.  But is there a way I can limit this?  A beef I've
always had with MS is that in order for domain trusts to work you had to
open up NBT between servers and you couldn't pick and choose, say turn file
sharing off and leave just the ability to verify authentication.  If there
was a way, I never found it.  But, with AD does this change?  I would assume
that I could just allow kerberos between my DC's and leave NBT out of the
mix completely.  That would help cut down on some of the risk.  Also,
wouldn't it make it easier for a hacker to gain domain admin rights if they
were attacking the DC itself?  Granted it's only the DMZ DC at that point,
but that's still a problem.

I'm looking for details on why not to do this, I know it's a bad solution...
But I would like to have some concrete examples.  


Aaron Dokey - MIS
Reid Tool Supply
2265 Black Creek Rd.
Muskegon, MI   49444 
(231) 777-3951
(231) 767-3772 (Direct)

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Angelucci [mailto:daniel_angelucci@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:19 AM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: IIS on a domain controller

Where I work, we have no firewall, no NAT, no nothing.  As a result, our DCs

are live on the Internet.  There are a million implications and things to 
watch for when doing this.  Basically, security becomes much closer to a 
full time job for an 2k admin.  There's a great document from SANS about 
securing Win2k which you can order at www.sans.org.

Also, you can expect a lot of downtime because you will be patching your 
servers constantly.  Most of the optional security patches are not optional 
when you are in the DMZ.  Finally, the only way to truly secure a Internet 
live DC (IMO) is using Kerberos authentication and only Kerberos 
authentication.  In addition, you would want to REQUIRE secure communication

between your clients and the server.  This means no legacy clients and no 
trusts to NT 4 domains.

If I could, I would move my DCs behind a firewall tomorrow.  I don't have 
the option and I get attacked a lot.  Just two days ago I had to call 
Comcast security to get some !@#$%#!@ hacker removed from the Internet.  
It's not always fun, and it is a lot of work.

Just my $.02


>From: Aaron Dokey <adokey@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: "'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [windows2000] IIS on a domain controller
>Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:39:04 -0400
>I know that it's a generally accepted bad practice...  Here is the
>I've got a DMZ with it's own NT4 domain, and currently the domain
>controllers are very old and slow machines (Original Pentium's, ~64MB
>Memory).  The DC's work out just fine for now, that's all they're doing and
>the load is very light.  However, I'm planning an AD migration and would
>like to extend that to this domain by making it a tree within our new
>forest.  The only machines I've got that are capable of running win2k with
>any sort of speed are the servers in the DMZ themselves.  So, what exactly
>are the security implications of making one of the less used IIS boxes a DC
>for the DMZ?  Please keep in mind that it will also have trusts back into
>our production domains outside of the DMZ.
>I don't think that I'm going to be able to purchase new hardware to serve 
>domain controllers to get this done.  Money is just too tight right now.
>Aaron Dokey - MIS
>Reid Tool Supply
>2265 Black Creek Rd.
>Muskegon, MI   49444
>(231) 777-3951
>(231) 767-3772 (Direct)
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