ok, here is what i think will happen: 9libs will be available from sourceforge with CVS. core wily will not be in cvs in sourceforge; it is in cvs at present and had versions under teamware and sccs and even qef. at next release time, i'll think about the issue again. it is highly unlikely that whatever i use will be detrimental to anyone browsing the source, checking it out, or building packages or contributing to it in some fashion (indirectly, unless your name is gary capell, bill trost et al...:) oz