[wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

  • From: "Frank Yerrace" <Frank.Yerrace@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:03:41 -0700

Jeff,

Just to confirm that I understand you correctly: you feel there are some
applications that will work better if the Vista mixer API (in normal
mode, not the proposed compatibility mode) included line controls of
type MIXERCONTROL_CONTROLTYPE_PEAKMETER. Do I understand you correctly?

You said "a couple." Is this literally about two or three apps? Also, do
these apps not work at all or is some minor functionality not working?
If anyone can provide this list of apps, then we'll have better data
when considering such a change.

Frank Yerrace
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

-----Original Message-----
From: wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Pages
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:46 AM
To: wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

Thanks Frank. I'll compile a list of applications that we're aware of
that 
might require this and forward it to Richard.

There are also a couple of applications that would probably be okay with

Vista's mixer API except they expect to be able to see input and output
peak 
meters, which Vista currently isn't virtualising. Is this something that

could be added easily at this stage?

Jeff
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Yerrace
  To: wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:05 AM
  Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308


  There's good news and not-so-good news about the current Vista builds.

The good news is that we anticipated this problem when we initially
designed 
the new Vista audio system, and built in a mixer compatibility mode that

will cause the mixer APIs to operate much like earlier releases of
Windows. 
The not-so-good news is that there's no really good way for an app to
invoke 
this mode to get the compatible behavior.

  Our team now has a high priority work item to add this "mixer 
compatibility mode" to the general Windows Vista legacy operating system

compatibility modes. For those of you that aren't aware of this feature
in 
Windows XP, users enable compatibility mode for an application by 
right-clicking on the application, clicking Properties, clicking the 
Compatibility tab. If an application does not work well with the new
mixer 
API behavior or other Vista-specific operation, the user can specify
that 
the application should run in one of these compatibility modes (XP,
Win2000, 
Win95, etc).  Of course, as with all plans, there is no guarantee that
this 
change will make the final product, but we're going to do everything in
our 
power to ensure that it does.

  As our own testing continues and we receive early feedback from 
communities like this, we will identify specific applications that
clearly 
need the mixer API to work in compatibility mode (we already have
identified 
some). We will pre-configure Vista to automatically run the mixer API in

compatibility mode for these specific applications.

  If you know of a specific application that needs the mixer API to
operate 
in compatibility mode, please send email to Richard Fricks 
(richfr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx). You can forward this message with a description
of 
the application and appropriate contact information. Richard will
contact 
you to gather the necessary information allowing us to pre-configure
Vista 
to automatically run the mixer API in compatibility mode for your 
application. Furthermore, we would like to help you make future releases
of 
the application more Vista-ready.

  We hope this addresses this issue raised by several of you here.
Thanks 
again for providing such clear feedback to us.

  By the way, there is a caveat regarding the mixer API behavior here.
When 
running in this compatibility mode, the mixer APIs will allow you to 
directly control all the hardware controls reported by the audio driver.

This is NOT exactly like the Windows XP behavior.  Windows XP
virtualized 
certain controls (like volume or mute) to make them work well with the 
kernel mode mixing architecture in that OS.  On Vista, the mixer API in 
compatibility mode will not virtualize any capabilities of the hardware
- it 
will report exactly what the hardware driver reports and nothing more.

  Frank Yerrace & Larry Osterman

  Microsoft Corporation

  This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no 
rights.



  -----Original Message-----
  From: wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Yerrace
  Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:14 AM
  To: wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

  We very much appreciate that this community is taking a good look at

  Vista and giving specific feedback like this. Thank you.

  Please give us a couple weeks to study this issue here to see if we
can

  offer some alternatives for certain classes of applications like this.

  If you hear nothing more within that timeframe, please raise the issue

  again.



  Frank Yerrace

  Technical Lead

  Microsoft Corporation

  This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

  rights.



  -----Original Message-----

  From: wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

  [mailto:wdmaudiodev-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of stephen turner

  Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:26 AM

  To: wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

  Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

  I agree with Jeff and Dan -It looks like this is going to be a huge

  problem for professional applications that still use the mixer API and

  expect full control over the h/w.  Is there a way that the audio

  subsystem can be put in a "legacy" mode to make it act like 2000/XP?

  -steve

  ----------------------

  Stephen Turner

  AudioScience, Inc.



  -------- Original Message --------

  > From: "Daniel E. Germann" <deg@xxxxxxxx>

  > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:13 AM

  > To: wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

  > Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

  >

  > We have customers that will have the same problem.  Some are

  broadcast, like

  > Jeff's, and others use our products for test and measurement

  applications.

  > Both sets of customers have existing software that expects to access

  the

  > hardware through the mixer APIs.  In fact, access to the main audio

  fader is

  > mandatory for the test and measurement app, so they can ensure their

  test

  > stimulus signal is not attenuated.  Otherwise, it will look to their

  > software like the response signal has a drop in level.

  >

  > Is there a white paper that talks about these changes that we could

  pass on

  > to our customers, so they have a "heads up"?  Most of the public
info

  I've

  > seen so far is in the HD Audio or driver realm.

  >

  > Thanks,

  > -Dan

  > --

  > Dan Germann

  > Digital Audio Labs

  >

  >

  > ----- Original Message -----

  > > From: "Jeff Pages" <barefeet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

  > > To: <wdmaudiodev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

  > > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:31 AM

  > > Subject: [wdmaudiodev] Re: Mixer API under Vista build 5308

  > >

  > >

  > > Thanks Frank. The controls are showing up correctly and are

  functional

  > > under Device Properties as you described.

  > >

  > > My main concern is that our products are targeted at the

  professional

  > > audio market, and many of our customers will be using our cards
with

  > > broadcast automation and mixing desk software that expects to find

  these

  > > controls through the mixer API, and the loss of this functionality

  will

  > > seriously impact on our business.

  > >

  > > Jeff

  >

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