Hello, The Barnes and Noble Nook app is accessible, although the device is not. The issue with Amazon goes beyond pleasure reading. Now they want to put it in the k-12 schools, which is an issue because the current accessibility provided on the Kindle keyboard does not allow navigation by page, character, word, etc., and does not allow a student to look up items in the dictionary, make annotations, and use other features accessible to sighted students. Also, there is no facility allowing connection to a braile display. -----Original Message----- From: vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of kb7uengene Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:46 AM To: vi-kindle@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vi-kindle] Re: Amazon, Why Do You Keep Burning Blind Readers? Well, technically they've done that with the Kindle for PC app with the accessibility plug-in. If they took that app and matched it feature for feature with the hardware based Kindle 3/keyboard, I don't know that there would be much the blind community could argue about because Amazon would just turn around and say that they've made the Kindle accessible through the Kindle for PC app. But also, why isn't anyone concerned about the Barnes & Noble Nook Being accessible? On Dec 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "Larry Lumpkin" <llumpkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: No, the kindle products just plain need to be accessible. -----Original Message----- From: vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of kb7uengene Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 10:18 AM To: vi-kindle@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vi-kindle] Re: Amazon, Why Do You Keep Burning Blind Readers? Well, that's why I also mentioned the iPod touch, the Kindle for PC app with accessibility plug-in, and the Kindle for Mac app as well, which Needs the accessibility plug-in added to it. And then there's the notetakers developed for people, who are blind and visually impaired, which most of us already have on hand, such as the Pacmate line of products, Braillenote/Voicenote line of products, Braillesense/Voicesense line of products, and so on, which Kindle and Nook Apps could be developed for. With the Kindle and Nook apps, you would pretty much have access to all the Ebook Content you can think of. Or add Kindle and Nook file format support to the Daisy readers that are already built into these notetakers. There are lots of ways this Issue could all be approached and done a lot easier than it is now. - Gene On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:44 AM, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Um, not all of us use an iPhone or iPad. I do, but why should people be forced to use an expensive smart phone just to have access to a kindle app? My best friend has no desire to have a smart phone, but he does like his kindle keyboard. -----Original Message----- From: vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vi-kindle-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of kb7uengene Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 8:27 AM To: vi-kindle@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vi-kindle] Re: Amazon, Why Do You Keep Burning Blind Readers? I know I'm going to get crap for making this statement, but I'm going to say it anyway. I still don't understand why Amazon is bothering to make the Fire accessible in the first place when they could simply rely on all the hard work Apple put into making their iOS devices accessible. All Amazon really needs to do is make their Kindle for iOS app, Kindle for PC app with accessibility plug-in, and finally Kindle for Mac app, accessible so they match up feature for feature with the Kindle 3/keyboard hardware/firmware-based e-reader line of devices. In essence, Amazon is making a lot more work for themselves creating their own voice navigation and screen reader for android-based hardware with their very proprietary skin over the top of it. Personally I think NFB demonstration the other day in front of Amazon was a complete waste of time because the people raising a stink about accessibility on the Kindle have lost sight of, pardon the pun, of what's really important here. It isn't about the hardware itself, that's not important, it's about accessibility and being able to do the things you want to do just like everyone else does and takes for granted while they are doing it. An iPhone and or an iPod touch with the recommendations I mentioned above would completely replicate either a Kindle keyboard with Wi-Fi or a Kindle keyboard with Wi-Fi and 3G. So my big question to everyone is why are you all asking Amazon go the long hard way around to make the Kindle accessible rather than doing it the simple way by making only the Kindle for iOS app and Kindle for Mac app accessible so that you get what you want sooner rather than later? Remember the iPhone and the iPod touch can easily fit in a small pocket, you try doing that with Kindle keyboard. - Gene On Dec 14, 2012, at 7:36 AM, "Russ Kiehne" <russ94577@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Doing some research, I found the following from NFB. I can't see buying a Kindle Fire at this point in time. I'll continue to use my Kindle Keyboard to reae Kindle books. Amazon, Why Do You Keep Burning Blind Readers? Submitted by cvangerven on Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:00 Blog Date: Friday, December 7, 2012 By Amy Mason According to ZDNet and Engadget the Kindle Fire will be getting Explore by Touch and Voice Guide to provide accessibility features to blind and visually impaired customers. These features were first introduced in Google's Android, Ice Cream Sandwich operating system. (This is the basis of the OS for the Kindle Fire and Fire HD which has been heavily skinned by Amazon for the device.) Google has since released Jelly Bean which has improved markedly on accessibility. If this were Amazon's only weakness, an out-of-date OS, I would be disappointed, but I would understand. This is not, however, Amazon's only problem. Their weakness instead, appears to be a disregard for the wishes of its blind consumers. Blind people want Kindle books. We want them badly enough that I know several blind people who have chosen to buy the Kindle Keyboard, despite being unable to do anything more than start and stop text-to-speech on their books. The PC edition (with accessibility plug-in) is slightly better. If a user is willing to sit at a PC, they can read by navigational elements as small as a sentence at a time, and as large as a page (seriously, you have to sit at the computer and turn every page. What a thrilling way to read a book!) I hear a few of you saying, "Ok, Amy, so you are upset about the past, but now Amazon is offering this additional accessibility in the Fire". I am sorry to disappoint you, but for all intents and purposes it did not improve on their existing efforts. We purchased a Kindle Fire HD, and received it last Friday. We read on Amazon's website that there were accessibility features, so we felt that we had to do our due diligence and test their work. First of all, when you get the device, you have to have a sighted person turn on the accessibility features because there is no way for a blind person to turn them on independently. Secondly, access is limited to the device settings, the collection of books in a user's library, the primary navigation buttons (back, home, and more) and allowing you to start and stop text-to-speech on a book. A sighted reader on this tablet has the capability to browse the Web, play music, play audio books, download and read magazines and newspapers, buy Android apps, read e-mail, view documents (this ay be accessible, I didn't get a chance to check), browse photos, voice chat, and read books. We are limited to access to the settings, navigating our library, and using the digitized speech equivalent of a cassette tape. We can play and pause speech, and it will read continuously, just like on the Kindle Keyboard, but we cannot navigate accessibly. No headings, paragraphs, pages, sentences, words or characters can be distinguished, nor can you go back accessibly. Tables of contents and social media integration are likewise unavailable to blind users. We were concerned by these conclusions, and decided that perhaps we were missing some details, so we called the company. (Accessibility was a very small part of the help page after all.) We spoke with two different customer service reps, and indeed, the reps verified that yes, this is the extent of the accessibility of the device. It is hard to see the accessibility features in the Kindle Fire as a gesture of goodwill. Amazon is familiar enough with what true accessibility looks like, both directly from us, from the work their competition has done, and even from the screen access packages it requires to allow a PC user to read with text to speech on a computer. It cannot claim ignorance when Google, Apple, and Microsoft all offer far more accessible devices (they all have their problems, but let's be honest, these guys are all making a legitimate effort.). Furthermore, both the iPad and the Nexus 7 are confirmed to offer accessible eReaders from other creators (several of which can be used with Braille) while no access to Kindle books is available on any of these platforms. Amazon needs to stop burning blind readers with these half-hearted attempts at accessibility in all versions of the Kindle, including the Fire. What is needed now is for it to implement real accessibility, rather than expecting blind readers to accept a cassette tape equivalent in an era of multi-purpose tablets.