(VICT) Re: come back
- From: "Ann Edie" <annedie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:36:14 -0400
Hi, Frank, (or do you prefer to be called DC?),
I had just about finished writing a nice long response to your message, when
my computer froze up and refused to respond. So I had to turn it off and
back on again, and of course, the entire post I had written was gone
somewhere irretrievable. So I'll give you a shorter version this time, and
if you have questions about any of the particulars, please ask.
First of all, I am answering your questions on the list rather than
privately, because I want you to have the benefit of the support,
experience, and expertise of all the fine trainers and clicker-only handlers
who are in the group. I hope they will add their suggestions to mine and
clarify anything that is fuzzy.
I can fully empathize with your struggle to save your partnership with Jake,
as I went through a similar struggle with both my second and my third guide
dogs. It was a devastating experience for me, even though I had trained my
pet dogs and competed with them in obedience matches, and I had worked
successfully and happily with my first guide dog for nine years until his
death.
I don't know whether clicker training can save the partnership between you
and Jake at this point. It is not easy to "unpoison" the poisoned cues and
reestablish trust in a relationship. But you seem to really love Jake, and
you seem to have a strong commitment to the partnership. So it is
definitely worth a try.
Remember: I am not a professional guide dog trainer. Any suggestions I may
give are just my thoughts, nothing more. You must choose the measures and
techniques you use with your dog. Only you can decide whether to follow the
directions of your school and depend on them to evaluate the effectiveness
of those measures and to decide whether or when to end a partnership with a
dog, or whether to try something different and see if you get better
results.
Anyway, I think there is a lot you can do to make things right with Jake.
The first thing I would do is find one or more really tasty treats that Jake
can eat and loves, like bits of hotdog, tiny pieces of cooked chicken, tiny
bits of cheese, or tiny liver snacks. Then I would get a waist pack or
treat pouch and just get into the habit of wearing it all the time with some
of those yummy treats in it.
I will attach to this message Sandy Foushee's Basic Clicker Lessons. Sandy
is one of our group members; she is a completely clicker, service dog
trainer who has also owner-trained her own guide dog. I hope she will also
jump in and give you some suggestions.
Since Jake is already familiar with the clicker, you may not have to go back
to the very beginning lessons with him. But it never hurts to review,
especially when you want to begin a completely new way of relating with your
partner.
Secondly, I would definitely stop turning Jake loose to run in unfenced
areas. He is obviously not ready for the recall under that level of
stimulation. He can get lots of exercise with his guide work, with off-duty
walks on leash, and with playing inside the house or on a long leash
outside. The off leash running is obviously too stressful for you and too
dangerous for Jake. And you don't want Jake practicing undesirable
behaviors like running off and not responding to your recall cues.
The other thing I would do is stop using corrections with your dog. I would
use the leash and collar strictly to keep the dog within range and under
control, but not jerk on the leash or use it to give corrections.
I think the "touch" cue is the key to both Jake's recall and the distraction
issues. If Jake understands that the click means that he has done what you
want and that it will always be followed by a yummy treat, and if he knows
that mugging will not produce treats, but that performing certain behaviors
will cause treats to rain down upon him, then you are ready to start
building a really strong and joyful targetting or touch response.
As Sandy describes in her lessons, you will start with the "touch" response
at very close range and in a quiet, familiar location. You will gradually
build the response so that you can get it at greater distances, with higher
levels of distraction, and with your hand at different heights and in
different positions. You will practice this behavior, always in a fun and
positive way, many times a day and in many locations within your
home--during play, when you want him to come to you so that you can feed him
or take him out for a walk, or for any other pleasant reason.
I would not use any sort of recall cue when I want to catch the dog for
reasons he considers unpleasant, like a bath, ear cleaning, or nail
clipping. In those cases, I would simply go to where the dog is and clip on
the leash to lead him where I want him to go. I would click and treat for
his letting me approach and snap on the leash, and of course, during any
unpleasant process, for patience and cooperation on his part. But when you
give him that "Touch!" cue and he responds to it, you want only wonderful
memorable things to happen to him, so that he will be eager to come to you
from whatever he is doing and wherever he is.
And, of course, you never, never want to correct or punish your dog when he
responds to the cue and comes to you, no matter how angry and frustrated you
are with him, and no matter what he did wrong before coming to you. You
always want coming to you to be as exciting as opening Christmas presents!
You want to be the most wonderful and interesting thing in your dog's world.
When he responds to the "touch" cue, you will shower him with happy talk,
hugs and pats, and delicious treats!
Once he is eagerly and enthusiastically flying to you from within your
apartment when he hears you say, "Jake, touch!", then you can take the show
on the road. Ask him to touch your hand with his nose when you are at work,
or on the bus, or standing at the bus stop, or anywhere else you go.
Once the "touch" response is really strong and consistent, then you can
start using it in slightly more distracting environments. You might start
by sitting somewhere, like on a bench at the mall, where there are lots of
people passing by, but not too close. You can practice having Jake touch
your hand and get clicked and treated when no one is passing. After several
repetitions, someone might pass within his "distraction zone", and perhaps
he will turn his head to watch them. Before he can get really distracted,
you will say "touch" and put your hand where Jake can very easily touch it,
C/T! Continue practicing this, until Jake automatically looks toward you,
expecting the click and treat, whenever another person comes within range.
It may take many months to gradually build up a reliable and consistent
recall at liberty and at distance. I would definitely keep Jake on leash,
gradually increasing the length of the line, and practice recalls at
gradually greater distances and with gradually greater levels of
distraction. If he fails to respond at any time, you know that you have
increased the criteria too fast or that the environment has rewarded him
more highly for not coming than you have rewarded him for coming. Then you
just have to drop back a few steps to a place where he is consistently
responding correctly, and once again gradually build the behavior.
As he becomes reliable and consistent with certain responses and situations,
you can gradually reduce the value of the treats and the frequency of C/T.
For example, when he reliably comes to you within the house, you can switch
to kibble instead of the higher level treats and keep the "good stuff" for
outside the house. And you can begin to string together several behaviors
and C/T after the last behavior in the chain.
You can also use the click and treat to reward his excellent guide
behaviors, so that he will begin to think of the work itself as fun and
rewarding. But I think I should save that discussion for another time. I
think you will have plenty to work on for now.
Do let us know how it is going and ask any questions you may have.
Best of luck,
Lots of Joy,
Much success!
Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "The count" <darkcount@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: (VICT) come back
> Hi all.
> I just subscribed to the list.
> Name is Frank, and am working my first dog Jake, a black lab from GDA.
>
> I am turning to clicker training in the hopes of saving a deteriorating
> team if at all possible.
>
> Jake is already aclamated to the clicker, so that is not necessarily the
> issue.
> My real concernt on top of all others is that he will not come when
> called if he has decided to run.
> So I am turning to the list and the experts in hopes that you will be
> able to help me map out a set of steps to start him in the right way.
>
> I was able to work with him on come from a sit sstay, or a down stay
> with no problem.
> Though it took a few minutes of follow and heal with the clicker in my
> hand and bits of kibble.
>
> My real objective here is to get Jake to stop if he is getting near the
> no no mark in a yard, or park, and to return to me.
> The only way I know of doing this currently is to set targets as near as
> possible to the spot, and correct violently, something which puts as
> much stress and disappointment in the results on both of us.
>
> I live in an apartment, and currently have no acquaintances with a back
> yard, so have to run Jake in a semi-enclosed area which requires that
> Jake learn the no zones.
>
> I maybe asking too much, but I have put too much work over the last two
> years into our team to loose a darn good worker like Jake.
> He suffers from people and doggy distractions, yet his work with out the
> distractions is examplery.
> I was told that he would require a yard and a place to run if I was to
> stay with him.
>
> As I have seen chiguaguas mantain enough of an attention span to observe
> such boundaries, I can't see why I should not expect a full fledge black
> lab who has done two years of services as a guide dog not to.
>
> I am sure there some of you with quite extensive training on clicker
> work, and if you are willing to work with me, you got an eager student.
>
> My thanks in advanced.
>
> D C
>
>
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