(VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
- From: "DIANNE B. PHELPS AND PRIMROSE" <d.bphelps@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 21:24:50 -0700
Thanks so much for the information, Shelley, This sounds really good. I
would love to read a copy of the new lectures just out of interest, but I
guess I will wait my turn. They have needed to update those lectures for
quite some time, and I am glad to hear that they have done such a good job.
Dianne and Primrose
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
> The first day, we had a discussion of food rewards and were given a pouch
> to
> keep food in, as well as instructions on how to take the amount of the
> dog's
> dinner. We also practiced back chaining on our first outing, in my case
> it
> was teaching a coffee shop. Smile.
>
> Then, like Wednesday or Thursday of the first week we were issued clickers
> and practiced our timing, we were given a CD on clicker principles and had
> a
> discussion.
>
> then the following night, we had a hands on clicker workshop teaching
> finding of objects with the clicker and the timing factor. We did a
> variety
> of touches, using our hand as the "target stick' which actually is working
> fantastic and my girl had the chair thing down pat.
>
> On Friday of that week we were given another CD on further principles of
> clicker training, and on Monday, we did a clicker training specific route
> in
> Gresham, where we taught our dogs to target a new item, mine was a bench,
> as
> we have tons of them here in Boston, to find. She was able to find it
> from
> the corner of the block, and since I have been home, I used the targeting
> to
> teach her bus stops, another bench, curves, the stairs at the subway,
> inside
> and outside the T cars and buses, and to reinforce finding empty seats.
> As
> well as the self serve propane tanks at Home Depot so I can line up my
> parking lot crossing. She is a quick study considering I have her only
> for
> about three weeks tomorrow.
>
> After the clicker work out, we were allowed to carry our clickers with us,
> and use them for any behavior we wanted. one man taught his dog to bow,
> by
> capturing the play bow and had his dog do it at graduation, others used it
> to find rooms, I used it for free run, and to do the hand touch to work on
> doggy distractions, and other distractions, the whole can't touch hand
> with
> nose and look at pigeon at the same time, smile.
>
> But honestly it was fantastic, and I like the incorporated approach. They
> still issue chain slip collars, and honestly, I haven't found something
> more
> rewarding to this dog than a Squirrel sigh, or a flock of pigeons walking
> towards her, so still working on that. They also introduce different ways
> of using auditory cues in teaching targeting, suggested putting sand near
> a
> targeted item if it is in the environment so you know it is there, and
> they
> are open to new uses and suggestions for clicker work, or how to adapt it.
>
> The clicker classes are optional but so far according to the trainers no
> one
> has not taken advantage of them. Talk about a double negative, smile.
> But
> even the "old timers" which we had several, one lady was on dog six,
> another
> dog five, and a bunch on dog four, all of them learned to use the clicker
> and food rewards and try them. I was one of two people getting their
> second
> dog.
>
> I do like, that when we would get on the bus, that our class supervisor
> would emphasize that you have all these tools in your tool box, and that
> it
> is which tool works best for you and your dog that counts and matters not,
> what is the "standard" procedure.
>
> The pouches are really nice ones too, they changed the design and they
> come
> in many different colors, mine is blue.
>
> Another tool they are using is something I used with Judson for years but
> is
> now really being emphasized is a "break off" which means letting the dog
> know it can be silly, and not concentrate on work.
>
> Very positive, and I like it a lot. By the by, all the lectures have been
> redone, we were the first class to get the CD sets, and the lectures are
> more positive and I like their style, plus read by a human, and you can
> get
> text copies as well.
>
>
>
> Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI
> and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide
> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> Graduate Alumni Association Board
> www.guidedogs.com
>
> More than Any other time, When I hold a beloved book in my hand, my
> limitations fall from me, my spirit is free.
> - Helen Keller
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Styron" <sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 11:16 AM
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>
>
> Shelly, I really felt the training heading in that direction almost a
> year and a half ago when I was at GDB getting Gretch. So I am very happy
> to hear that this has definitely come to pass. It just kills me on the
> GDUI list to see how some students from certain schools are constantly
> afraid to even think a creative thought without first checking with
> their favorite instructor. It's like some sort of sick groupie syndrome
> or something. But more disturbing, is how fostering too much school
> dependency inhibits a handler's ability to grow and problem solve with
> their dog. Don't get me wrong, as I would never probably recommend a
> school that doesn't offer strong follow up for those who need it.
> However, I think what you are describing sounds like an excellent step
> toward promoting more successful teams. And since this is after all the
> clicker training list, can you tell us how much focus there was in your
> class on clicker work? Are they doing as much in Oregon where you were
> as they are down in San Rafael?
>
> Sheila Styron, President
> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
> 816-363-3172
> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shelley
> L. Rhodes
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:38 PM
> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>
>
> I will say, smile, coming from training, in August, that GDB is now very
>
> much letting and encouraging students to think outside the box!!!!!! It
> is
> a really cool new format, and I love it. There are discussions now, not
>
> lectures, you and your dog are a individual team with individual goals
> you
> work towards in class, and every comment or term given to you is
> specific to
> you and your dog.
>
> And the instructors comment when you ask, "What should I do here," is
> "What
> do you think" and then you talk it out, is a very empowering thing.
> Smile.
>
> I really loved the training this time, and learned quite a bit in the
> two
> week class.
>
> But very different from seven years ago. You still cover the basics,
> and go
> through all the basic readings, but the personal touches, are wonderful!
>
> In a positive way, smile.
>
>
> Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI
> and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide
> juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> Graduate Alumni Association Board
> www.guidedogs.com
>
> More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my
> limitations fall from me, my spirit is free.
> - Helen Keller
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Styron" <sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:24 PM
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>
>
> Even if I taught a tail tuck, I am so worried about the tail getting
> hurt that I may not be able to let go of reaching down and protecting
> it, for instance when it's time to close the car door. That would be a
> real test for me. I was even thinking today about how we can possibly
> assist the guide dog schools to get clients to think more abstractly and
> imaginatively about trouble shooting work issues. I think a couple of
> the schools still really discourage clients to think much outside the
> box, when being creative is sometimes so essential to solving work
> related or behavior problems.
>
> Sheila Styron, President
> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
> 816-363-3172
> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DIANNE B.
> PHELPS AND PRIMROSE
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 4:00 PM
> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>
>
> Sheila,
>
> I don't think I have ever taught this as a specific task, but tend to
> help my dog tuck the tail when on a bus so she doesn't get stepped on. I
> use it when closing the door to a car, and I guide their tail when
> sitting down on a couch behind a coffee table where there are things on
> the table which could be swished off. It is like they don't always know
> that their tails can cause them trouble. I think in this case, the
> suggestion is to teach this as a commanded behavior.
>
> I know you have done these things too. It is just that those of us who
> have just done these things, don't always think of it as a learned skill
> for our dogs, and I find when I see some of the things taught as skills
> or behaviors, I have to stop and think about the behaviors as things I
> have
>
> just done, but in a different way. Now, people are able to give words to
>
> these things where we learned by trial and error how to keep our dogs
> from causing themselves trouble.
>
> I find it interesting how some of the newer training methods do address
> things we used our hands to do or placed our dogs to do without giving
> words to what we were doing. We are more experienced humans learning new
> tricks to help our dogs know what we need.
>
> Dianne and Primrose
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Styron
> " <sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:22 PM
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>
>
>> This list is so good for me. I am on an emotional wave length with all
>
>> of you, but it's like I am an illiterate author or something. Now
>> please explain to me why tail tucking is a desirable or useful
>> behavior.
>>
>> Sheila Styron, President
>> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
>> 816-363-3172
>> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Diane &
>
>> Raven
>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:55 PM
>> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: (VICT) Re: Task ideas- Feedback?
>>
>>
>> There is a work book, and a set of DVD's for teaching assistance dog
>> behaviors, by different authors. The DVD's are pricey, the workbook is
>
>> on Karen Pryor's site. There is are yahoo discussion groups where
>> there are behavior teaching shared. OC-Assist-Dogs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> assistance-dogs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> tasktraining_Assistance-Dogs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and of course my group
>> and my website will have some teaching details and video for task
>> teaching.
>>
>> these are general sites and not focused on guide behaviors so you may
>> have to wade through many posts while you wait for an answer you are
>> looking for. My group is not yet that large but is not total focus on
>
>> behaviors and there is a lot of other discussions that go on there.
>>
>> I think this group is great for guide information and very helpful
>> information. My personal thoughts are that there are every
>> experienced people here that can help or will find the information
>> needed.
>>
>> I have been searching for the tail tuck information I promised and was
>
>> unable to find it in my files. this is how I would teach it.... if you
>
>> use the clicker principals of breaking any behavior into the smallest
>> pieces before teaching. Than you take those tiny pieces and teach
>> each one so that the piece is solid and reliable before moving on to
>> the next piece of the behavior so that you have a strong foundation.
>> Back-chaining is the process of teaching the end of the behavior first
>
>> and moving to the beginning of the behavior. this sets the dog up for
>
>> success because the dog always knows what comes next.
>>
>> the process isn't mystical, the magic is in the patience, frequency of
>
>> marking and rewarding, timing and generosity with marking and
>> rewarding when building a behavior. And also not lumping... Lumping
>> is the term used when you take too big of a piece or pieces of the
>> behavior. lumping happens from inexperience and sometimes excitement
>> at well and quickly the dog responds and so the handler tries to move
>> ahead too quickly too fast.
>>
>> I am firm believer in teaching journals (thus:
>> AssistanceDogJournal.net) because they help with learning for us and
>> the dog and to review to see the progress you are making and the
>> concerns. Also owner-trainers should always have a journal a detailed
>
>> record of all teaching the dog receives and tasks taught.
>>
>> Oh, my I do go on some times,sorry.
>>
>> Best Wishes & Wags,
>> Diane & Raven
>> APDT#72225
>> http://AssistanceDogJournal.net
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Golden_Paw_ADC/
>> "My Assistance Dog is not my whole life, but she makes my life whole"
>> ~D.L.Shotwell "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul
>> remains unawakened." ~Anatole France
>>
>> All posts are considered copyrighted by the author. You must get
>> permission from the poster before forwarding.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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