(VICT) Re: Service dogs and aggression - Long
- From: Meg Irizarry <arjay@xxxxxxxx>
- To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:15:32 -0500
>Hi Sandy, Ann and All,
I absolutely agree with all the concerns Ann and Sandy have pointed
out. Safety should be the prime concern for Ridge and as Ann has
stated, aggression or reactivity, even in it's infancy, is
unacceptable for a service dog. As for the stress of working, being a
contributing factor, I couldn't agree more. My golden retriever, was
rejected from TSE for severe car-sickness. Her work was fine, but
the stress manifested itself in car-sickness. I know this to be a
fact, because beginning on the ride home from picking her up at TSE
until this day, 8 years later, she has never become car-sick. In
fact, she enjoys car rides. Interestingly, her training since coming
home to me, is without the use of any aversives on my part. Perhaps,
as Ann wonders, her stress level plummeted due to this and being
relieved of the job of guiding. Indeed, it is a very sticky
situation and I too hope that Ridge and Buckley are able to work
through this and continue as a team for years to come.
That said, I did want to respond to Sandy's post and questions below.
I have left parts of Sandy's post in tact and placed my responses in
the appropriate places:
>Sandy wrote: A handler using this method needs to have pretty darn
>good control over the environment, the scary
>person (Kids.. control.. yeah right..grin) and their dog's reactions.
Meg: It isn't about controlling the environment. It's just about
being present in the environment where the dog reacts. I can
certainly understand concerns about kids and control. One doesn't
usually hear those two words in the same sentence <g>. However,
maybe it could be accomplished with a sighted adult nearby to
instruct the child when to stop and stand still and when to retreat -
something like a red light/green light game. Of course, it is vital
that Ridge is able to hold onto Buckley so that he cannot move closer
to the child. Also, since is involves operant behavior on the part
of Buckley, Ridge is not controlling any of his reactions.
>Sandy wrote: If Ridge can arrange and find and set up the
>circumstances enough times , especially at the places Buckley seems
>to have trouble , for Buckley to generalize it, it may help alot!
Meg: If I am understanding the problem correctly (remember, I am old
and many times confused <g>), Ridge is already aware of the
environmental triggers. The amount of time needed to see results
with this method, as opposed to desensitization, is markedly
reduced. It isn't unusual to obtain behavior modification in a
single one hour session.
>Sandy wrote: On a curious note.. Do you think Ridge could teach
>Buckley a alternative "alert" to indicate the prescence of scary
>children? Something that would give Ridge a "heads up" notice that
>there might be scary kids present?
Meg: I think it's possible. However, it seems to me that it would
be pretty involved, since it means modifying an established behavior
and then training a new one. Buckley already has what Buckley
considers to be an appropriate behavior or response to kids in these
situations. He growls. This is his alert. Growling would have to
be extinguished and replaced with a more appropriate (to humans)
behavior. It might be easier to train a behavior chain using
growling. It might be something like: growl, turn towards Ridge,
then bump with nose or paw. Ridge then would have to apply the
desired reinforcer. I understand that growling is unacceptable, but
it is an already established response that cannot be misinterpreted
by Ridge. It clearly means that Buckley perceives a threat. If
Ridge were to attempt to replace growling with another more humanly
acceptable behavior, might there be a chance that it could be missed
or misinterpreted? This is a tough one.....
>I can tell you that I worked with a car chasing lab, several years
>back. With a great deal of work on the part of the extremely
>devoted owner, we were able to train the dog to respond to a moving
>vehicle by running away from the car, towards the owner for his
>reinforcer. They actually got to the point where he was reliable
>off leash and if he spotted a moving vehicle, would charge, full
>speed to his mommy, instead of chasing the car. Fabulous dedication
>on the part of his owner!
>
>Sandy wrote: Lord I love it when situations get my brain going.. so
>many possibilities,
>so little time to test them out! Guess that's why I love training dog owners!
Meg: Ain't it the truth!!
arjay@xxxxxxxx
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