Hello folks.
I'm a bit late getting to this discussion but Jim has just answered some of the
original questions perfectly. I just want to amplify a point. Yes, you can set
the playing strength of various apps/programs to something nearer your
approximate playing strength. Clearly playing something rated at 2600 isn't
going to get you anywhere so resetting is sensible to a practical degree.
However, as you reset you also alter some of the evaluation programming hence
there will be hiccups as Jim clearly demonstrated with his underpromotion.
Chess is a game that is a primarily a contest of judgements. Computers can get
it wrong just as easily as humans. The best example I can quote is when I was
analysing an IBCA Olympiad game from a few years ago. My computer suggested one
line where Black took a Pawn and evaluated it as about +1.25 in Black's favour.
In fact because Black was a Pawn up meant he was losing. His extra Pawn blocked
his primary line of attack and he had no counterplay. The two humans involved,
both strong and experienced players, appreciated this which is why White had
sacrificed the Pawn and Black had refused to take it. Excellent judgement by
both but poor by the computer.
I haven't been posting much recently due to personal circumstances. However, I
do hope to post an annotated game shortly. In that game there is at one point a
computer evaluation of +3 to White even though the material is even. A simple
comparison of each of White's four pieces, including the King, to its
counterpart shows that each White one is clearly more active. An evaluation of
+1 to either side is usually a clear indication of who is better. At +3 I'd be
looking for winning lines.
Any questions or further observations welcome.
Regards,
Tyson
On 11 February 2017 at 15:54 JT <hazelnutt2001@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Evan & Jim H, and everybody else!
As far as setting time control on FICS, Jim H, you are right, you cannot
set time control based on number of moves. You can only set it for the entire
game. Jim Slagle worked out that you can approximate to the 30/60 time control
we use in our tournaments by setting game/1200 (that’s seconds) with a delay
factor of 90. If you avoid taking a particularly long time on a move, this
will generally work. The other thing you won’t get, though, is remaining time
once the game is over. Well, more accurately, what it will give you as
remaining time is pretty meaningless.
As to the Evaluation numbers in Shredder, I finally figured out that if it
shows a + sign, it means white’s advantage. If it does not show the +, it
means black’s advantage. The number itself approximates pawns. For example, if
Shredder shows +1.29, it means that white has an overall advantage of roughly
a pawn and a quarter. It calculates based, not only on material equality, but
also on positional factors. It seems to be generally fairly accurate, as far
as I can tell. However, do not always take Shredder at his word. I was playing
Shredder, and I reached a point where I could promote a pawn. Yaaahooo! I
observed that if I promoted to a queen, he got some counterplay, but if I
promoted to a knight, I would promote with check, and, after he made the only
move he could make, I would fork his king and queen. Shredder told me he
thought I’d made a bad move when I promoted to a knight. And he was playing at
something like 1450 rating strength. I told him to shut up and continue. Two
moves later, when his king and queen were forked, he resigned. So, As Master
Ross has pointed out on more occasions than one, computer analysis is not
always to be believed.
I’ll tell you what, though, I’m loving Shredder. Are you guys using it
with an auxiliary board or are you just using the phone screen to help orient
yourself?
All the best,
Jim T
From: usbca_chess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:usbca_chess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 9:15 PM
To: usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [usbca_chess] Re: Some Questions About Shredder
Hi Jim,
Well, after playing, and resigning, from two games, Shredder now says my
ELO rating is 996, and that it will reduce its playing strength from 1396,
where I experimentally set it from its default of 1400, to 1196. I’m done for
tonight, but I’ll see if I can tell the difference in its playing strength
when I try a game tomorrow.
I’m having a lot of fun.
Evan
From: Jim Homme mailto:jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 10:04 PM
To: usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx mailto:usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [usbca_chess] Re: Some Questions About Shredder
Hi Evan,
I'll take a stab at some answers. The numbers you talk about represent the
evaluation graph. It says who is ahead and how far it thinks they are ahead.
I don't understand how to read it. You can turn it on and off in the
Settings tab.
As for finding help, you can see Help in the Info tab. Almost at the
bottom you will see a link to a page of frequently asked questions and
answers, and another one to the web site of the deveeloper, where you can read
more help.
As for how it said what opening you were using, it probably either
contains the ECO table of openings or looks it up. For more info
on that, google encyclopedia of chess openings or see Wikipedia about
chess openings. You can also see much of the same information at Wiki Books.
If you are interested, you could also get another chess game for your
phone called ChessWise. It has some different features than Shredder has. For
playing games, I like Shredder best. For checking out openings and end games,
I like Chesswise the best. The paid version of ChessWise lets you play using
your member profile on the Free Internet Chess Server, FICS, if you have one.
Unfortunately, though, the last time I checked, you couldn't set every time
control our group uses. I could be wrong about that, though.
Thanks.
JimWhen it says "This game can still be rated," I am unsure what that
means.
On Feb 10, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
mailto:mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;> wrote:
> >
Hey Guys,
I just played my first game against Shredder. I went twenty moves
before I gave it up. But I’m going to start another one here in a minute.
I think I could get hooked on this app pretty quickly. I know it’s
not the same as playing against a human, but it’s a lot of fun and there are
no points on the line, as well as being great to be able to take moves back
and get hints if I want.
I just had a few questions.
Firstly, does anyone know what this Evaluation number means? It
seems to change every time I look at it. Currently it says Evaluation 3.68
after my 20th move.
Also, is there a manual for this program that explains the various
features? I hit the About button and the Info button, but I didn’t notice
any kind of documentation. For example, I played White in this first game,
and I did not consciously try a specific opening because I don’t know any,
but here it says Opening C26. How did it get that if I wasn’t playing an
opening? Another example of a question would be that it says at the bottom
right of the screen, “This game can still be rated. Image.” Does anyone know
how to activate that with Voiceover. It doesn’t appear to be a button. I
just brought up a Ratings screen, and it says zero games and zero ratings,
so how do I get it to start rating me. Can I get an ELO rating from it?
Thanks for any advice.
This is truly a great app, and extremely accessible with Voiceover.
Evan
>
