Hi Mark,
Any help you feel you want to give in any way is totally welcomed bby me. I'm
not yet a member of the BCA e-mail group, but I recently signed up as a member.
Any knowledge would be wonderful. At this point, I need to start by learning
the technology, so even a prototype of the software is going to be a while off.
To get my head around everything I need to learn, the software is probably
going to start with very basic functions like playing and storing games.
rom the outset, I would like to plan for the ability to be able to use the game
on multiple platforms. That's why I want to keep it simple for now. I am biting
off a lot to learn.
Thanks.
Jim
On Dec 19, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Mark R Hague <Mark.hague.list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Jim,
one thing I must add here is that on the topic of chess engines, Stefeno
from Italy has outstanding knowledge on this subject and is a better chess
player than myself. He certainly is very knowlegable about using chess
engines. I don't know if you've seen his posts on the UK BCA list but they
are pretty brilliant. I always keep a copy as he certainly knows how to
manipulate chess engines through the winboard gui. If you like I can send
you a compilation of his notes on using engines and winboard that I have
recently made if that would be useful.
I'm sure he would be happy to contribute to this project if this was felt a
good idea.
Mark.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim" <jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 5:22 PM
Subject: [usbca_chess] Re: Is Fritz Accessible?
Hi Mark,
Speaking only for myself, i'm simply not interested enough nor want to spend
the time using the deeper features of the off the shelf chess programs. That
said, though, I have been considering the idea of creating a totally
accessible interface to any chess engine that uses the UCI protocol. My aim
would be to give those of us who are blind a way to go into chess on the
computer in a way that presents as few barriers as possible. For that, I
would need someone with the knowledge I don't have about what is the
functionality that you want access to, and what you think makes sense when
it comes to the kind of interface that would help you achieve your goals. I
would not have to have a deep understanding of chess engines. All I would
need to do is know the UCI protocol, present the results of the engine
output in an accessible format, and partner with someone who has a deeper
knowledge of chess than I do, so that it makes sense to them. If you want to
have a Skype conversation about this, I'm open to it. It will take a lot of
time and patience. I'm interested for selfish reasons, though. I want to
learn some technlolgy and I'm looking for a project to work on that I am
interested in. This would be such a project. Drop me a private note if you
want to help me design this.
Jim
On Dec 19, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Mark R Hague <Mark.hague.list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Jim,
There are quite a few commercial chess programs that are accessible with
windows 7 e.g. Shreddar, Fritz and I think Ribka 4. All I'm really trying to
say is that it takes in my view a considerable amount of skill and patience
not too mention intelligence for a blind person to yuse these programs to
the full extent that they were designed for. Key to using these programs is
to be expert at using what jaws calls the jaws cursor to examine the screen
and be able to build up an understanding of quite complicated screen layouts
in ones mind.
If one just once to play against the computer at different skill levels then
to be honest this isn't that difficult at all but then one is only using a
small part of what is available in these complex commercial programs.
Yes it would be interesting to here the views of other blind persons who use
commercial chess programs, I'd really vbe very happy to here people
disagreeing with my perhaps negative views.
Best wishes,
Mark.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Leventhal" <jaylev7@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 3:15 PM
Subject: [usbca_chess] Re: Is Fritz Accessible?
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your response. You may well be right, but that is a
depressing answer. If all chess programs designed for the general market
are not accessible, that puts blind players at a big disadvantage when
competing with sighted players. It is the equivalent of saying that
blind people should use a word processor designed for us rather than
using Microsoft Word. I realize that screen reader manufacturers make it
their priority to make their products work with a few mainstream
products, not including chess programs, but it's still frustrating.
I was hoping to hear from someone who uses Fritz or another mainstream
product with a screen reader.
Jay
On 12/18/2015 12:50 AM, Mark R Hague wrote:
Hi Jim,
My view is that as Fritz is a commercial program and was not designed
specifically for blind persons it should only be tackled by expert screen
reader users and persons who have used specifically designed chess
programs
such as winboard and K chess who now want to take a very big step up and
try
a much more sophisticated commercial program. I would argue perhaps
controversially that for a blind person to operate this program
effectivley
they would need, the following
1. To be An expert screen reader user with many years of experience.
2. Excellent computer skills especially with handling and editing text and
pgn files and a good understanding of formats such as FEN and PGN.
3. Above average intelligence, most blind people would find Fritz too
difficult to operate.
4. The right version of Fritz as in my view versions 9 and 11 with
tweaking
are accessible. Versions 12 and 13 use ribbons and are much harder for a
blind person to use and most people would argue they were inaccessible. I
don't have any experience of using versions above 13.
5. Computer with Windows XP or Windows 7, I have no idea how Fritz and its
versions work on Windos 8.1 and Windows 10.
To summarize Fritz is a tough nut to crack but it certainly can be done
with
perseverance, however you need versions 9/11 circa 2008 which may be
dificlt
to obtain. Bear in mind that a lot of commercial chess programs are
totally
inaccessible.
regards,
Mark Hague
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Leventhal" <jaylev7@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <usbca_chess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 11:45 PM
Subject: [usbca_chess] Is Fritz Accessible?
Hi Everyone,
I just received a request from a woman asking if she should buy the
Fritz chess program for her son. Is anyone using it with a screen
reader? Is it easy to use?
She also asked about KChess Elite, which obviously is accessible.
Thanks,
Jay
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