[tor] Re: Torservers Update

  • From: Moritz Bartl <moritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: torservers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:05:48 +0100


I also believe multiple organizations would be beneficial. So it would
be harder to close all down. This was a main argument against such
approach as torservers because it would allow easier way to closing
all down.

I understand the controversy and strongly support diversion, but in this case I think an "umbrella organization" will work. The servers will be "contracted" to individual administrators, with periodical checks and a contract penality if conditions are violated (strictly no traffic sniffing etc). On the other hand, in the unlikely event that we as an organization were forced to introduce logging or shut our nodes down, the contract will also cease to be valid and so will the hosting/management agreement. Should we grow more the funds should maybe be also distributed in a way that the organization itself doesn't carry too much.

Recently, more and more people from the administration in Germany, especially due to the privacy discussion, understand the importance of what we are doing here. So far, no Tor nodes were ever forced to close down or introduce logging. I don't think they can go as far as closing down the whole organization - maybe they can force us to introduce logging, but once this happens all existing hosting/management contracts will be void, funds will be frozen/liquidated and obviously new contracts including logging will never be put into place. Maybe we should even introduce a clause in the statute, that once we should be required to compromise this, the whole organization will automatically dissolve and funds be given to a non-profit organization agreed upon by the members.

When I say I want to provide individual nodes to certain parties, this doesn't necessarily mean that we need to set up more physical servers. At the moment we run 4 logical nodes due to missing multicore support, but we can also run multiple logical nodes just for "promotional reasons".

So it would be great to have software which helps being such a
group/organization. Developed in open source manner. So software for
donation handling, network monitoring, hidden service hosting. Maybe
even a search engine then.


Also ideas/experience/software how to protect such hosted data such be
provided, so that even if the server is taken away hosted content is
not revealed. (Because it could be also hosted just for a smaller
group of people, not really freely public in the Tor network.)

As far as this is possible (disk encryption).

Maybe also a web proxy into the Tor network would be interesting for
some? So that you do not need to use Tor to access hidden services,
but can use hidden-service-name.torservers.net to access it from the

There is tor2web.com, but of course we could provide a second gateway, if the members agree on that (basically if we can find someone who wants to do it).

So my offer from that time still holds: I can organize a hosting of
server in Slovenia.

At the moment I am reluctant to spend donations on more servers, because until we have the organization in place and recurring member donations (or larger cooperations), I cannot be sure how long donations will last. If you want to donate a node, sure! :-)

> We here are also in the process of establishing an
> association for promoting exactly this ideas (free, open and
> uncensored access), we are also doing community wireless network here
> from same ideas and we will probably go also to being LIR ourselves.
I think it is good that we would be independent organization and this
is why I have not actively joined into Moritz's action.

Very cool! Some day we all might need it...

For some of this features we will probably develop for ourselves
(automatic donations managing and (good idea) automating collecting
regular donations for nodes in our wireless network).

I am very interested in this. We're also thinking about seriously working on something like that (because so far there seems to be no good way to collect donations for organizations, which is a shame!).

So what I want to say: yes, we and I are for doing another Tor node
like that in Slovenia. If anybody would like to join us in this from
this region (or just support it to happen in this region), you are

Maybe I can put that on the next-gen torservers page, too. :-)

>> I am looking for a German lawyer to do mail forwarding
>> for us, which will provide excellent legal protection.
> How is this called? Does it have a name? Such service. Is this legal?

Yes, this is legal. "Virtual offices" and mail forwarding/scanning are also offered by commercial services such as http://swisspostbox.com/ , but it would be best to find a laywer because they enjoy special protection.


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