[TN-Butterflies] Re: butterfly punctuation
- From: kjchilds <kjchilds@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: tn-butterflies@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:33:01 -0800 (PST)
When it comes to butterfly counts, it's not unusual to list things as
'Anglewing', 'dark Swallowtail' or 'brown Grass Skipper' when a definite ID
can't be made.
Ken Childs
Henderson, TN
Chester County
http://www.finishflagfarms.com
________________________________
From: LeGrand family <elegrand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tn-butterflies@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 12:22:20 PM
Subject: [TN-Butterflies] Re: butterfly punctuation
I'd say if you're not sure about the identification put it down as a ?,
though perhaps not--just leave it up in the air. :)
It's good that we have an English professor (Steve Stedman) weighing in on
punctuation!
Ed LeGrand
Crossville
-----Original Message-----
From: TN-Butterflies@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:TN-Butterflies@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:07 AM
To: tn-butterflies digest users
Subject: tn-butterflies Digest V3 #272
tn-butterflies Digest Thu, 09 Dec 2010 Volume: 03 Issue: 272
In This Issue:
[TN-Butterflies] Re: punctuation marks on Eastern Comma and
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 06:03:15 -0800 (PST)
From: kjchilds <kjchilds@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [TN-Butterflies] Re: punctuation marks on Eastern Comma and
Question M
I found one shot of a QM with a comma marking. I don't have the facts to
prove it but I would bet that a QM with a comma is going to be a lot more
common that a Comma with a qm.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p193/kjchilds/IMG_2658.jpg
While searching for info on possible QM/Comma hybrids, I found this paper on
the possible evolutionary history of Polygonia species. It didn't answer my
question but there is some interesting info to be found if you can get past
the biologist speak.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/9/92#IDAVSPMK
Ken Childs
Henderson, TN
Chester County
http://www.finishflagfarms.com
________________________________
From: Steve Stedman <birdsongteam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tn-butterflies@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, December 8, 2010 6:52:18 AM
Subject: [TN-Butterflies] punctuation marks on Eastern Comma and Question
Mark--revision
The punctuation marks on the ventral sides of the hindwings of the Polygonia
species are apparently incorrect for the actual species on which they
appear on some percentage of individuals, but the percentage of individuals
so marked is currently unknown (to me at least).
Michael Bierly recently provided an example of a Question Mark with a
punctuation mark that looks much like the punctuation mark found on Eastern
Comma.
During a butterfly count in western Putnam County in 2008, I found an
Eastern Comma with the perfect punctuaton mark for Question Mark on each of
its hindwings below. You may view photos of this individual at my website
(link below).
The frequency of such punctuational inversion among Polygonia would be good
to establish. Does anyone else have photos providing the kind of evidence
that Michael provided recently or that I provided a couple of years ago?
If this is a relatively frequent (i.e., occurring in more than 1% of
individuals) aberration, then it might be worthwhile to require dorsal
photos of these species to establish a county record rather than trusting
the ventral photos.
[In this regard, however, I would also note that the Eastern Comma with
punctuation marks like a Question Mark that I photographed in 2008 also had
a very "ghostly" image of the rectangular spot in the dorsal forewing apex
that supposedly confirms that an individual is a Question Mark, so maybe
there are individuals out there that display aberrant versions of this mark
also--i.e., Eastern Commas with the extra rectangular mark and Question
Marks without it.]
If punctuational inversion is an insignificant problem (occurring on less
than 1% of individuals), and if it occurs about equally in each species,
then perhaps it won't affect county records much, since these species seem
to be about equally common in most parts of the state where I am an active
butterflier (so a mistake about one species might be balanced by a mistake
about the other). However, if the inversion problem is more common in one
species than the other, then it could be worth worrying about.
In dealing with aberrant individuals, of which nature surely provides many
examples, I find it most useful to present the aberration in a forthright
manner rather than asking folks to guess what it might be. The goal is not
to make folks look bad when they mess up on an i.d. because the features
they have learned turn out not to be totally reliable; rather, the goal is
to forewarn our friends about pitfalls they might encounter in the effort
to correctly i.d.
individuals butterflies and moths so that they avoid turning in photos of
county record 'flies that are, in fact, incorrect.
Hope to hear more about the polymorphic punctuation marks of the Polygonia.
I have to think that there is a voluminous literature out there about this
very matter.
Steve Stedman
Cookeville (Putnam County)
Link to page with links to photos of Eastern Comma with punctuation marks
like those of Question Mark:
http://iweb.tntech.edu/sstedman/ButterflyCount--PutnamCountyWest.htm
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End of tn-butterflies Digest V3 #272
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