[TN-Bird] Re: goose mess
- From: <birder1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <kde@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Tennessee Birds" <tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:53:53 -0600
Dean and all,
Excellent question, and one that seems to be popping up on listserves all
over the place. I am in the same boat, not having paid enough attention to
the variety and variability of then, just Canada Geese. I had wondered which
forms we regularly got in TN, and asked a question or two, with little
response.
In going through Canada's the last few years, I've run across the tiny pale
birds that were surely Richardson's. But, the only time I thought I was
photographing a Richardson's, upon looking at the photo again lately, the
photo was in fact Lesser. A web search will turn up many photographs of
Richardson's, and Cackling's, etc. and is great for study. But of course,
who's to say all of the birds displayed on the web are correctly identified?
Many of these birds show the classic tiny size and stubby bill of
Richardson's. But, some of the photographers have mentioned that they
initially thought they were photographing Richardson's, but now think they
are Lessers. Definitely can be tricky. This discussion has come up again
recently on the Identification Frontiers list,
http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html , in the Dec. 2004, week
3 archive. There is some interesting talk from several well-informed people.
Jeff Wilson also has some good shots of these small birds.
The best treatment I've seen so far, is from David Sibley. I'm sure many of
you have seen this, but here is the link:
http://www.sibleyguides.com/canada_cackling.htm
Sibley mentions that one of the main problems and areas of uncertainty
involves the relationship between "hutchinsii" (Richardson's Cackling Goose)
and "parvipes" (Lesser Canada Goose), in that they possibly hybridize
extensively and can overlap in measurements. I take it that many Lessers are
noticeably larger in size and bill than you would get with Richardon's, and
many Richardson's will be smaller than you get with Lesser. There appears to
be an intermediate state that hasn't been fully worked out yet. The other
forms of Cackling Goose are darker, so Richardon's and Lesser seem to be the
biggest issue for us.
We had a few Lesser Canada's on the Reelfoot CBC last weekend, though we
were obviously hoping for Cackling to give us 5 species of goose for the
count. While the Lessers were noticeably smaller than the larger Canada's
they were with, they still had the shape of a Canada. The bill was smaller
as well, but not the stubby bill of a Richardson's. Looks like right now,
your bird should be very small (hopefully noticeably smaller than Snow
Goose), with a very steep forehead, square blocky head, short triangular
bill, and short neck to be a good Richardson's. The white collar seems to be
more prevalent on the smaller subspecies, but not currently useful for
separating them. Both Lesser and Richardson's are said to show it regularly.
A couple of the Lessers at Reelfoot were showing noticeable collars.
Interested in any comments,
Mike Todd
McKenzie, TN
Carroll Co.
birder1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.pbase.com/mctodd
----- Original Message -----
From: "K Dean EDWARDS" <kde@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Tennessee Birds" <tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:47 PM
Subject: [TN-Bird] goose mess
>
> With the recent split of Cackling Goose from Canada Goose
> and the possibility of further splits, I've been trying to
> pay more attention to the local geese. The group at the
> Pellisssippi State campus pond in west Knox Co allows for
> close study.
>
> I ran over at lunch today and gave a few a good look. First,
> no "Blue" Snow Goose... haven't seen it since Sunday, 5 Dec.
> And no Cackling Goose. But what about the 200 or so that
> were there?
>
> Resident geese with neck collars included:
> R28E, R85E, R88E, X42A, X96A, X97A
>
> I focused on a small subgroup of 20 or so birds. Most
> appeared to be the large, resident B. c. maxima. At least
> they appear of similar size, body mass, coloration and
> bill size compared to the banded birds (assuming the banded
> residents are of this subspecies which "should" be the case).
>
> In addition, there were at least 4 geese in this group that
> were noticeably smaller... though probably not noticeable
> unless you were looking. My impression was that they were
> probably on the order of the size of a large Snow Goose or a
> bit larger (hard to say without other species there).
> Coloration was much the same but some had very noticeable
> white collars (of feathers, not the white plastic neck bands).
> Not sure that some of the larger birds didn't have white
> collars too, and apparently this is not a reliable field mark
> for anything.
>
> What does this mean? Not sure. Safe to guess though that
> these were probably migrants from one of the northern
> populations. Maybe they're even "Lesser" Canada Geese.
> Kinda makes your head hurt, doesn't it?
>
> Anyone else out there care to share thoughts on the geese
> they've seen this winter?
>
>
> Dean Edwards
> Knoxville, TN
>
>
>
>
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=================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER=====================
The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with
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To post to this mailing list, simply send email to:
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society
Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s)
endorse the views or opinions expressed
by the members of this discussion group.
Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN
wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society
web site at http://www.tnbirds.org
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp
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