http://www.pbase.com/shoeman/rutherford_co_swan_29_dec_11 Scott Somershoe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I've been running the roads lately, mainly looking at every sparrow flock I could find and just getting back and settling in to look at photos. Taking all of Scott's photos, I photoshop adjusted size, contrast and lightened etc. I see no field mark, bill size/shape (both species can have slightly concave upper mandible) , nare location, head bill ratio, body length to neck ratio, curve of feathering from eye to bill, curve of back, major body axis, and details given by observers, taken as whole, most if not all point to Tundra. As Mike Todd commented, the shape of the feathering between the eyes and bill develops only fully in adulthood but also the angle at which the head is viewed straight on changes this look from V to U, to a straight line as the head is tilted but usually a good mark if seen well. Can be a good indicator on full adults but said not to be 100% diagnostic. Next time, just grab one of these babies and measure the distance from the bill tip to the nare or the width of the foot, both should be diagnostic;o) As far as hybrid, the bird just does not look much like a hybrid or at least nothing far out of normal variations. A few years back when I was chasing every swan, photographing and measuring heads, bodies and necks from enlarged shots, I had a few conversations by phone with the head of the International Swan Foundation in the UK. He mentioned that swan of all species would interbreed readily or as he put it politely "at the drop of a hat" in captivity. Now with the reintroduction of Trumpeters in many areas in the US, and the various species kept as pets on private ponds etc, plus birds hatched in captivity, raise by humans and released into new/old flyways who knows what will happen. I've looked at a lot of swans and agree young birds can be a tough call but usually you can put a suite of points together that will lead you in the right direction. There will be marginal birds that you may not be able to pigeon hole but I don't think the adult Rutherford County bird is one of those. Just my 2 cents and of course others have different views of what they see.......... Good Birding!!! Jeff R. Wilson / TLBA 6300 Memphis-Arlington Rd. Bartlett, TN. 38135 _http://WWW.pbase.com/ol_coot/_ (http://www.pbase.com/ol_coot/) What is this feathered thing that lifts my heart to the heavens.