I have seen these posts on this subject and thought I would add my 2 cents. I am a consummate list-maker and I have tons of paper filled up with classifications of birds of the world. This is my idea of fun. It might not appeal to others but then my choice of music (Radiohead, Coldplay, Queens of the Stone Age, etc) might not appeal to them either. I don't consider it elitist to like this sort of thing. To me, it's fun to look at birds of the world and try to figure out how they are all classified and connected to each other. I like puzzles and it seems like a kind of puzzle to try to figure these things out. There are various systems of classification and from what I have read - no one system is considered foolproof. Some say Sibley & Monroe have the last word. Others prefer to stick to one of the various traditional lists. Every once in a while somebody publishes a paper in Auk or other ornithological journals stating that what was once believed as gospel truth is no longer valid for this reason and that. And they fall to squabbling amongst themselves and eventually one emerges as the victor? lol However, most of them agree that the New and Old World counterparts are (for the most part) not directly related. Flycatchers here are not close cousins to Old World flycatchers, ditto for warblers, orioles, blackbirds, vultures, etc. The original names of these birds were meant for the Old World varieties. It was the original colonists of our continent - our ancestors - who, in my opinion, are responsible for the current confusion. Rather than follow the examples of other transplanted colonials (Australia, New Zealand, Latin America, etc) and adopt the names used by people who already lived there or make up brand new ones, our ancestors chose to use the same old names they were accustomed to in the Old World. Most of them weren't ornithologists or even naturalists. They saw something that reminded them of birds in the old country and labeled them as "robin", "blackbird", "sparrow", etc. And those are the names we still use today. What a shame they weren't more innovative or respectful of people already here and adopted names already in use for these wonderful creatures. Perhaps some enterprising person might consider pursuing this project? A Cherokee field guide to the birds of the Smokies? A Chippewa field guide to the birds of the North Woods? A Navajo field guide to the birds of the Southwest, etc.? I think it might be interesting to see what someone could come up with in this regard. Depictions of these animals as the original people viewed them. The wonderful stories they told about them, etc. I also think they would be popular among birders and other naturalists. Now I am not suggesting the wholesale slaughter of names already in use and ones that everyone knows. But I think it is good to keep everything in proper prospective and to realize why things are the way they are. The scientific names are just as important as the American and/or European names or the names used by the original inhabitants. One look at Sibley and Monroe's Distribution and Classification of Birds of the World will prove just how important the scientific names are. At various times several species of birds have all shared the exact same names depending on who named them. It would be extremely difficult to keep them all straight if there were no scientific names at all in the book! lol Happy armchair birding! ;-) Barry Jernigan Murfreesboro, TN =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s) endorse the views or opinions expressed by the members of this discussion group. Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================