Several factors may enter into the grouse equation. Recall that in the 1910's and 20's, much of our local forest habitat was harvested, resulting in new growth forests. New growth is prime for grouse, and less prime for turkeys. Turkeys were over harvested and nearly non-existent in East Tennessee and Southwest Virginia. I have long argued that turkeys in the forest are the equilavent of a vaccum cleaner, eating anything with value in sight, including berries, bugs, nuts, salamanders, centipedes and the like. Many of these items support grouse as well. Realize that the forest has a limited carrying capacity, and is dependent in part, on the type of forest and production of mast each year by the forest. Some years are obviously better than others. In a good year, 10 acres of woodlands might support 200 white footed-mice, mice, or 50 gray squirrels, or 5 grouse, or 1 turkey or .2 deer, or as is the case, some multiple of the above. (obviously these aren't real numbers) We cant have it all in abundance. My personal opinion is the woodland vaccum cleaners have taken their toll on the grouse population, as well as other species, simply as a result of lack of carrying capacity. This is assuming, of course, that the population has not been affected by disease. I think there is a study ongoing on the Clinch Mountain Wildlife Area near Saltville, Virginia on the issue. It will be interesting to see the results. That's my 2 cents worth on the subject, and that's about all it's worth. Ken Hale Bristol, Tennessee =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================