Since only a small sample of birds are captured and banded, I wouldn't expect more than a small sample of banded birds to be recaptured ("recovered"). Thornton would have us believe that as many as 93% of banded birds are killed as a result of banding - that's bad logic. The 7% recovery rate seems higher than I would expect. Maybe someone else has calculated a hypothetical recovery rate based on empirical data and sound mathematics. Also, I would think that there are figures on the number of birds killed or injured during the banding process. That would offer a fairer indication than a single anecdote, namely, the calliope hummingbird. It seems to me that Thornton is trying to arrange the facts to fit his preconceived conclusion. Michael Sylva Del Rio TN ----- Original Message ----- From: William T. Thornton Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:55 AM To: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TN-Bird] Loving some birds to death by banding Currently more than 6,000 folks have permits to band North American birds. Do we really need that many? Currently, of the birds banded each year, there is only about a 7 per cent recovery rate. What happens to the other 93 per cent? What percentage of birds trapped and banded end up dead as a result of the banding/trapping experience? How many birds are killed in the trapping process before they can be banded? Historically, of the millions and millions of bird trapped and banded, there has been only about a 6 per cent recovery rate. While it can be assumed that we did learn a tremendous amount from this 6 per cent return rate especially in the early years of banding, the absent 94 per cent may be telling us even more. I do not have species specific data -- I am sure that for some species the return rate on bands is more and on others less than this averaged data would suggest. For instance, some time ago on TN-Birds it was posted that the return on hummingbird bands was about 2 per cent -- if this is indeed valid data, perhaps we should question the practice of banding every hummer we see in the late fall/early winter. If some of the "rare" forms of western hummers are trying to establish a foothold east of the Mississippi, they might have a better chance without a leg band. Recently it was posted on BirdKY that a Calliope Hummingbird in Ohio died in the banding process. Nowadays, do we really need to continue to have more and more birds banded? Are we running the risk of "loving some bird species to death?" (The current and historical numbers above were calculated from data available at http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/bbl/homepage/100years.htm) Terry Thornton Rinnie, TN (North of Crossville on the Cumberland Plateau) =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 ========================================================= Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================