The other option I've heard is a 2nd split with 3 species, Canada (large forms), Lesser Canada (intermediate) and Cackling. Dean Edwards Knoxville, TN On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Bill Pulliam wrote: > Doing more reading last night, it seems that bill length and body > mass measurements of hutchinsii and parvipes overlap broadly; indeed > one reference lists the largest hutchinsii as actually bigger than > the largest parvipes. There are differences in "typical" head shape, > but I haven't yet seen an effort to address that rigorously. I also > haven't yet found a good discussion of the documented wintering range > of parvipes. Both hutchinsii and parvipes winter mostly to our west; > parvipes farther west on average but both have large populations > wintering in parts of Texas. I'm now suspecting those birds I saw > may be the same ones that Mike Todd saw and photographed in the same > area earlier in the winter. The head shapes in his photos do look > more like what has been described for hutchinsii. But I am > increasingly concerned that we don't yet actually know how to > consistently separate parvipes and hutchinsii in the field, and that > all but the smallest "Cacklers" seen in Tennessee might not really be > identifiable to species in the field with current knowledge. Has > anyone done DNA on small white-cheeked geese from this area? > > The parvipes/hutchinsii/tavernii complex is the fly in the ointment > for the whole Canada/Cackling split. They apparently intergrade and > overlap, and are almost exactly intermediate in size and shape > between the "true" Cacklers and the "true" Canadas. Some suspect > that this split may be redrawn someday soon, with either hutchinsii/ > tavernii being returned to "Canada" or parvipes being moved to > "Cackling" (which would take the new sense of "Cackling Goose" even > farther from the original concept of the smallest races from the > westernmost areas; maybe it needs to be renamed "Tundra Goose" or > "Arctic Goose" or something else?). In the first case (hutchinsii/ > tavernii/parvipes all lumped with "Canada"), Tennessee and many other > eastern states might find ourselves without any documented Cackling > Geese at all anymore. > > Bill Pulliam > Hohenwald TN > =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== > > The TN-Bird Net requires you to SIGN YOUR MESSAGE with > first and last name, CITY (TOWN) and state abbreviation. > You are also required to list the COUNTY in which the birds > you report were seen. The actual DATE OF OBSERVATION should > appear in the first paragraph. > _____________________________________________________________ > To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: > tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > _____________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, send email to: > tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > ______________________________________________________________ > TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society > Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s) > endorse the views or opinions expressed > by the members of this discussion group. > > Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN > wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > ------------------------------ > Assistant Moderator Andy Jones > Cleveland, OH > ------------------------------- > Assistant Moderator Dave Worley > Rosedale, VA > __________________________________________________________ > > Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society > web site at http://www.tnbirds.org > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ARCHIVES > TN-Bird Net Archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/tn-bird/ > > EXCELLENT MAP RESOURCES > Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp > Tenn.Counties Map at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/tennessee3.gif > Aerial photos to complement google maps http://local.live.com > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to SIGN YOUR MESSAGE with first and last name, CITY (TOWN) and state abbreviation. You are also required to list the COUNTY in which the birds you report were seen. The actual DATE OF OBSERVATION should appear in the first paragraph. _____________________________________________________________ To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx _____________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. ______________________________________________________________ TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s) endorse the views or opinions expressed by the members of this discussion group. Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Assistant Moderator Andy Jones Cleveland, OH ------------------------------- Assistant Moderator Dave Worley Rosedale, VA __________________________________________________________ Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ARCHIVES TN-Bird Net Archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/tn-bird/ EXCELLENT MAP RESOURCES Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp Tenn.Counties Map at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/tennessee3.gif Aerial photos to complement google maps http://local.live.com _____________________________________________________________