Thanks Carol, for that in depth look into at least one more aspect of the cat/bird issue. You are a brave woman to invite this group to comment, but I know you thrive on such banter and we'll all enjoy the venting, whichever side we're on. I've tried to keep an open mind over the years, knowing that I love birds and cats, and so far I generally end up allowing pet cats their natural inclination to hunt, and the birds their natural inclinations to be wary. With multiple feeders for years, and multiple inside/outside cats, my observations match yours. For example a white-throat was offered to me last week and I thought I might have to chalk one up for the Inside Cat Party. But when I checked the bird, it had a huge tick under its eye that had completely closed the eye. Easy prey. Since I am also an inside/oustide resident and work in both places most days, I know what the cats are up to much of the time. Sure they stalk the birds for sport, but rarely succeed without a little help. But they regularly bring in the mice and rats that feed under the feeders which are much easier prey. They have only rarely gotten any migratory species of concern and I have almost always been able to confirm that, if those weren't already injured or sick, they had hit a window (my fault?). HOWEVER, there is a significant population of feral cats out here as well. I can't say what they are eating, but I do believe they could have a serious impact on a variety of wildlife. (i never see them around my feeders.) I think the increasing coyote population is helping minimize the ferals, but to me, dealing with the wild cats is where we should look for balancing the scales more in favor of the birds. That's my 2 cents worth, and I am still keeping an open mind, so fire away with some real statistics. When I'm convinced, I'll happily keep my cats up. Meredith Clebsch Loudon County, TN p.s - been meaning to comment on the raptor/cat topic. when one on my manx cats was about half grown, he suddenly became terrified of the ceiling fan (still is). since he was about the size of a young rabbit, i imagine he may have had a close encounter from above. jreese5@xxxxxxx wrote: > Carol Reese > Ornamental Horticulture Specialist -Western District > University of Tennessee Extension Service > 605 Airways Blvd. > Jackson TN 38301 > 731 425 4721 email jreese5@xxxxxxx > ----- Forwarded by Joan C Reese/ADAG/WEST/EXT/UTIA on 12/17/2002 10:45 PM > ----- > > Joan C Reese > To: tn-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > 12/17/2002 10:33 cc: > PM Subject: cats are > predators(Document link: Joan C > Reese) > > > Carol Reese > Ornamental Horticulture Specialist -Western District > University of Tennessee Extension Service > 605 Airways Blvd. > Jackson TN 38301 > 731 425 4721 email jreese5@xxxxxxx > > I hear a lot of opinion about cats being serious predators, but I have yet > to see any real data that backs this up. Quail have had a great deal of > genuinely scientific study to discover their predators. If you go online > and type in quail and predators, you will read that the most serious > predator of adult quail is the Cooper's hawk. In fact, some articles > speculated that the laws protecting raptors were part of the problem with > diminishing quail populations. Owls were also a serious predator of adult > quail, and then the mammals followed. Domestic or feral cats were rarely if > ever mentioned in these studies as a problem. If you read about nest > predation, turns out snakes are the worst in some places, raccoons in > others. Opossums, armadillos, skunks, rats, were high on the list and fox > and wildcat fell in there eventually. Coyotes were rarely problems, and > again, domestic cats weren't cited as a problem In fact, in one study in > Georgia, where management had decided to kill/remove the major predators on > quail, the cotton rat population soared as a result, and they became the > primary predator on quail nests. Cats would have helped out there, with the > rat population, huh? > > I even found one article where someone made a serious proposal to start a > program of poisoning Cooper's hawks to help improve the quail population! > > The argument might be made that quail are not in as close proximity to > heavy cat populations as some other species, but most common suburban bird > species are thriving, apparently adapting well to living with humans and > their cats. > > My cats do kill 3 or 4 birds a year at my house - the old, the sick, the > stupid. It is evolution at work. Heck, we've gotten rid of the cougar, the > wolf, the bear, and damn near run off the fox and the wildcat. That is why > we have too many deer. Deer and birds are prey animals to many other > species. The real threat to wildlife is too many @%^*&!#* humans, and > their enterprises. > > I hope I haven't fanned a flame, but likely I have. I know when I read that > line about Terry's cat, I didn't cringe. Of the several bird chatters I > know personally on this line, the majority have outside cats, intact with > teeth and claws. No offense to the Florida guide, I'm sure his heart is in > the right place, but then, so is mine... > > =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== > > The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with > first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. > ----------------------------------------------------- > To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: > tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > ----------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send email to: > tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society > web site at http://www.tnbirds.org > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN > jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 > ========================================================= -- =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to sign your messages with first and last name, city (town) and state abbreviation. ----------------------------------------------------- To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Topographical Maps located at http://topozone.com/find.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * TN-Bird Net Owner: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN jwcoffey@xxxxxxxxxx (423) 764-3958 =========================================================