[tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70

  • From: "White, Robert" <Robert.White@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:26:05 -0700

RoHS was put in place in order to implement WEEE. They are inextricably
linked. That is why RoHS references the categories in the WEEE
Directive. You need to remove the harmful substances (RoHS) in order to
safely and effectively recycle the products (WEEE). Recycling includes
"energy recovery" (read burning PCBA's), one reason for the removal of
some brominated flame retardants and the focus on removing more in
future.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bob White

Director of Safety and Environmental Compliance

Power-One, Inc.

Tel: (805) 384-5391

Cell: (805) 469-4347

 

 

________________________________

From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Simpson
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:55 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70

 


It appears that a WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment)
program should have been the main focus for the EU all along.   

"Consumers will be able to return their equipment free of charge. In
order to prevent the generation of hazardous waste, Directive 2002/95/EC
requires the substitution of various heavy metals (lead, mercury,
cadmium, and hexavalent chromium) and brominated flame retardants
(polybrominated biphenyls (PBB) or polybrominated diphenyl ethers
(PBDE)) in new electrical and electronic equipment put on the market
from 1 July 2006." As found in link:
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm 

Issue here would have been a cost absorbed by the manufacture for this
WEEE program where the consumer would recycle their goods.  Not sure how
much money this would entail, so it appears they passed this cost on in
another manor through the introduction of RoHS Complacency (EU should
have done a cost evaluation for both options prior to initiating the
RoHS program on an international basis). 

"Hate the player not the game." appears to be the chant in these emails.


Regards,

Frank Simpson
Component Engineer / Document Control

XP Power, Inc.
990 Benecia Avenue
Sunnyvale, California 94085

fsimpson@xxxxxxxxxxx
Direct (408)-524-8591
FAX      (408)-522-9989

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"Bob Landman" <rlandman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent by: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

08/27/2008 06:40 PM 

Please respond to
tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

To

<tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 

cc

 

Subject

[tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70

 

 

 




Same here in New Hampshire USA, Mark.

And when you toss a compact fluorescent lamp away you are also tossing
an electronic ballast as well, not just a tube with phosphors in it and
some mercury.  The CFL Hg level is very small but when you toss millions
of them away, that's not an insignificant amount of mercury.

Recycling, which is what should have been legislated, not lead-free
RoHS.

Bob Landman
H&L Instruments,LLC 

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Vaughan
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:38 PM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70

For tubes though that only applies to commercial firms.

They've kicked all houses over to try and use these energy saving light
bulbs, basically a folded up fluorescent tube. These must now be getting
to pretty big numbers similar I would have thought to normal fluorescent
tubes.
But for members of the public there is no instruction what to do with
dead ones, the public don't know about, or understand weee, neither do
the municipal waste collectors guess what skip they tell you to put them
in - the landfill one. They won't let you put them in the fluorescent
tube one.

They do collect batteries, TV's and Video's, but turn up with an old
PCB, or computer and you get the same instruction - in the landfill.
They haven't heard of weee.
I recently turned up with 500Kg of ABS from bathroom fittings, they
collect plastics if it's milk bottles, but ABS, guess where that goes.

In my county recycling seems to be a joke, yet the public claim is they
are on target.

Regs Mark

Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D., B.Eng. M0VAU
Managing Director
Vaughan Industries Ltd., reg in UK no 2561068 Water Care Technology Ltd,
reg in UK no 4129351 Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro,
Cornwall, TR4 8HH UK.
Phone/Fax 44 (0) 1872 561288
RSGB DRM111 (Cornwall)
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rex Waygood
Sent: 27 August 2008 08:07
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70


The high lead content solder has to be used for a technical reason such
as hierarchical soldering. No technical reason, no exemption.

I don't know where you live but disposal of fluorescent tubes in
landfill is illegal, they are hazardous/special waste. I pay a lot of
money to have them removed and disposed of legally and have the
paperwork to show that.

Rex Waygood
Technical Manager

PartnerTech Poole Ltd
Benson Road
Poole
Dorset BH17 0RY
United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0)1202 674333
Fax: +44 (0)1202 678028
DDI: +44 (0)1202 338222
Mob: +44 (0)7887 997403

Rex.Waygood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.PartnerTech.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager [mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 27 August 2008 07:04
To: tinwhiskers digest users
Subject: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70

tinwhiskers Digest                 Tue, 26 Aug 2008
Volume: 01  Issue: 070

In This Issue:
                                 [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder
                                 [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high
temperature lead solder

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:24:19 +0200
From: "Niki Steenkamp" <niki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm


------------------------------

Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:31:31 -0400
From: "Mason, Bert" <bertm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards, 

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer 

Formation Inc. 
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr. 
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242 



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm



------------------------------

From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:03:58 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Bert!

Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is
a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards,

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer

Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.

------------------------------

From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:14:22 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Nikki!

Sorry, but my email app sorts from most recent down, so didn't notice
that you were the originator of these questions.  So here is my
perspective.  And yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives
of RoHS, but it is a good example of what pushing back with data can
achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

The small amount of mercury in flouresent lights is part of the internal
coating on the glass.  And the fact that these tubes won't emit an
acceptable spectrum of light without the mercury.  Combine that with the
prospect of replacing all those flouresents with incandesents would
consume even more electricity.  And by the way, those tubes ought to be
treated as hazardous waste and turned into the local municipality as
such, not put in the weekly trash.  My town won't knowingly pick them
up.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm



The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.

------------------------------

From: "Mike Finczak" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:53:08 -0400

Niki, Bert and Ed,

                Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware
regarding
                Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused
by 
                the use of High Lead solder. 

 
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html


Regards,
      Mike Finczak
      CopperCAD Design
      www.CopperCAD.com
      905-488-8958


-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Bert!

Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is
a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards,

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer

Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.




------------------------------

From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:25:47 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Really good information, Mike!

This could really be another tip on the RoHS iceberg.  I believe that
high lead-content solders have been around for quite a few years, but
this could be that there is a "new" succeptibility for high lead solders
associated with the higher processing temperatures associated with
SAC305 assembly processes?

This looks like something that should be hitting the CPUs, as well.  The
really sad thing about this is that the general public is oblivious to
the uncertain product quality that they are laying down their money for.
And if anyone in industry tries to wake them, that person's employer
will get a blackeye, the we all know what that will result in for the
employee.

Very troubling,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Finczak
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Niki, Bert and Ed,

       Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
       Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
       the use of High Lead solder.

       http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html


Regards,
      Mike Finczak
      CopperCAD Design
      www.CopperCAD.com
      905-488-8958


-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Bert!

Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is
a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards,

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer

Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.





The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:46:26 -0700
From: Steve Smith <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hello Ed and Mike

The Truth Is Out There.

Just refer the general public to this Knol(a unit of knowledge, courtesy
of Google), published in Google's new on-line encyclopedia:

http://knol.google.com/k/steve-smith/tin-whiskers/e1osj187cpek/6#

Tell your local radio station, television station and newspaper anywhere
in the world that here is the Truth about a very controversial hot
story.

Steve Smith



> Really good information, Mike!

> This could really be another tip on the RoHS iceberg.  I believe that 
> high lead-content solders have been around for quite a few years, but 
> this could be that there is a "new" succeptibility for high lead 
> solders associated with the higher processing temperatures associated 
> with SAC305 assembly processes?

> This looks like something that should be hitting the CPUs, as well.
> The really sad thing about this is that the general public is 
> oblivious to the uncertain product quality that they are laying down 
> their money for. And if anyone in industry tries to wake them, that 
> person's employer will get a blackeye, the we all know what that will 
> result in for the employee.

> Very troubling,
> Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Finczak
> Sent: 2008 Aug 26 10:53 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

> Niki, Bert and Ed,

>         Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
>         Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
>         the use of High Lead solder.

>         http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html


> Regards,
>        Mike Finczak
>        CopperCAD Design
>        www.CopperCAD.com
>        905-488-8958


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

> Hi, Bert!

> Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it 
> is a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

> These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  
> They are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects 
> in devices that have very high power densities.

> Best regards,
> Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
> Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

> Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
> Welcome to our world

> Best Regards,

> Bert Mason
> Quality Engineer 

> Formation Inc.
> Building 1
> 121 Whittendale Dr.
> Moorestown, NJ 08057
> Phone: 856-380-2956
> Fax: 856-234-5242



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


> Hi,

> I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have 
> seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more 
> than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I 
> was
> wondering:
> * Why the exemption exists?
> * Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
> Maybe
> the temperature is unacceptably high?

> I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent 
> lights.
> Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in 
> landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable 
> while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead 
> in batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car 
> battery than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these 
> batteries end up in landfills each year?
> Just seems strangely warped...

> Regards,
> Niki




> E-mail Disclaimer
> http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




> The information contained in this message may be confidential and 
> legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely

> for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
> hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or 
> reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be 
> unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the 
> sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
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--
Best regards,

Steve Smith
www.consultingscientist.us 

http://www.pickensplan.com/




------------------------------

From: Engelmaier@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:21:39 EDT
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi Ed,
There are a number of possible and possibly interacting scenarios.
1) larger CPU chips are subject to larger 'global' and 'local' thermal
expansion mismatches-- using eutectic SnPb does help the 'global'
mismatch and there is a design solution for the 'local' mismatch;
2) the higher soldering T's required for SAC solders produce larger
'global' 
and 'local' thermal expansion mismatches--that is a direct fault of
RoHS;
3) reduced solder joint thickness [to reduce overall package thickness]
produces higher cyclic SJ strains for the same 'global' expansion
mismatch.
Werner
Future workshops:
Pb-Free Soldering Processes: Survival, Quality, Reliability, September
3, Stockholm, Sweden Reliability Issues with Lead-Free Soldering
Processes, September 22, Schaumburg Failure Mode and Root Cause Analyses
Reliability (Fatigue, Brittle Fracture, ENIG), September 22, Schaumburg
Solder Joint Reliability: Parts 1 & 4, Oct. 9, Moscow, Russia Solder
Joint Reliability: Part 4, Oct. 17, Timisoara, Rumania Solder Joint
Reliability: Parts 1 & 4, Oct. 22, Tallinn, Estonia



**************
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
     
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)



------------------------------

Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:21:43 -0400
From: "Fritz, Dennis D." <DENNIS.D.FRITZ@xxxxxxxx>

What is being described here is the C4 technology of flip chips.  Here
is a Wikipedia link to the description of "Controlled Collapse Chip
Connection" - the C4.  High lead balls have been used in this
application since IBM invented this in the 60's, and I think this is the
basis for the RoHS exemption.  Now that eutectic or SAC are being
considered, I would expect the RoHS exemption to go away. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip

Denny Fritz, SAIC
________________________________

From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike Finczak
Sent: Tue 8/26/2008 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder



Niki, Bert and Ed,

       Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
       Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
       the use of High Lead solder.

       http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html


Regards,
      Mike Finczak
      CopperCAD Design
      www.CopperCAD.com
      905-488-8958


-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Bert!

Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is
a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards,

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer

Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
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and destroy all copies of the original message.








------------------------------

Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:31:02 -0700
From: "White, Robert" <Robert.White@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I don't think it will go away anytime soon since the exemption is also
used for die attach in high power semi-conductors used in power diodes,
IGBT's and FET's. Power supplies, as well as many other applications,
including power conversion for all the new alternative energy solutions,
require high power semi-conductors. 


Best Regards,



Bob White

Director of Safety and Environmental Compliance

Power-One, Inc.

Tel: (805) 384-5391

Cell: (805) 469-4347





________________________________

From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fritz, Dennis D.
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:22 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder



What is being described here is the C4 technology of flip chips.  Here
is a Wikipedia link to the description of "Controlled Collapse Chip
Connection" - the C4.  High lead balls have been used in this
application since IBM invented this in the 60's, and I think this is the
basis for the RoHS exemption.  Now that eutectic or SAC are being
considered, I would expect the RoHS exemption to go away. 



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip



Denny Fritz, SAIC



________________________________

From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike Finczak
Sent: Tue 8/26/2008 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Niki, Bert and Ed,

       Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
       Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
       the use of High Lead solder.

       http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html


Regards,
      Mike Finczak
      CopperCAD Design
      www.CopperCAD.com
      905-488-8958


-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Hi, Bert!

Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is
a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.

These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.  They
are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in
devices that have very high power densities.

Best regards,
Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder

Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world

Best Regards,

Bert Mason
Quality Engineer

Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242



-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder


Hi,

I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
than 85% lead).  Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?

I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics.  Furthermore, lead in
batteries are exempt.  There is probably more lead in my car battery
than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these batteries end
up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...

Regards,
Niki




E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm




The information contained in this message may be confidential and
legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction
of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail
and destroy all copies of the original message.







------------------------------

End of tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
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