[tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
- From: "Bob Landman" <rlandman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:31:47 -0400
Same here in New Hampshire USA, Mark.
And when you toss a compact fluorescent lamp away you are also tossing an
electronic ballast as well, not just a tube with phosphors in it and some
mercury. The CFL Hg level is very small but when you toss millions of them
away, that's not an insignificant amount of mercury.
Recycling, which is what should have been legislated, not lead-free RoHS.
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments,LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Vaughan
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:38 PM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
For tubes though that only applies to commercial firms.
They've kicked all houses over to try and use these energy saving light bulbs,
basically a folded up fluorescent tube. These must now be getting to pretty big
numbers similar I would have thought to normal fluorescent tubes.
But for members of the public there is no instruction what to do with dead
ones, the public don't know about, or understand weee, neither do the municipal
waste collectors guess what skip they tell you to put them in - the landfill
one. They won't let you put them in the fluorescent tube one.
They do collect batteries, TV's and Video's, but turn up with an old PCB, or
computer and you get the same instruction - in the landfill. They haven't heard
of weee.
I recently turned up with 500Kg of ABS from bathroom fittings, they collect
plastics if it's milk bottles, but ABS, guess where that goes.
In my county recycling seems to be a joke, yet the public claim is they are on
target.
Regs Mark
Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D., B.Eng. M0VAU
Managing Director
Vaughan Industries Ltd., reg in UK no 2561068 Water Care Technology Ltd, reg in
UK no 4129351 Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 8HH UK.
Phone/Fax 44 (0) 1872 561288
RSGB DRM111 (Cornwall)
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rex Waygood
Sent: 27 August 2008 08:07
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
The high lead content solder has to be used for a technical reason such as
hierarchical soldering. No technical reason, no exemption.
I don't know where you live but disposal of fluorescent tubes in landfill is
illegal, they are hazardous/special waste. I pay a lot of money to have them
removed and disposed of legally and have the paperwork to show that.
Rex Waygood
Technical Manager
PartnerTech Poole Ltd
Benson Road
Poole
Dorset BH17 0RY
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)1202 674333
Fax: +44 (0)1202 678028
DDI: +44 (0)1202 338222
Mob: +44 (0)7887 997403
Rex.Waygood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.PartnerTech.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager [mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 27 August 2008 07:04
To: tinwhiskers digest users
Subject: tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
tinwhiskers Digest Tue, 26 Aug 2008 Volume: 01 Issue: 070
In This Issue:
[tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
[tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:24:19 +0200
From: "Niki Steenkamp" <niki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
------------------------------
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:31:31 -0400
From: "Mason, Bert" <bertm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
------------------------------
From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:03:58 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Bert!
Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:14:22 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Nikki!
Sorry, but my email app sorts from most recent down, so didn't notice that you
were the originator of these questions. So here is my perspective. And yes,
it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
The small amount of mercury in flouresent lights is part of the internal
coating on the glass. And the fact that these tubes won't emit an acceptable
spectrum of light without the mercury. Combine that with the prospect of
replacing all those flouresents with incandesents would consume even more
electricity. And by the way, those tubes ought to be treated as hazardous
waste and turned into the local municipality as such, not put in the weekly
trash. My town won't knowingly pick them up.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
From: "Mike Finczak" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:53:08 -0400
Niki, Bert and Ed,
Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
the use of High Lead solder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html
Regards,
Mike Finczak
CopperCAD Design
www.CopperCAD.com
905-488-8958
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Bert!
Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
From: "Parnagian, Ed" <ed.parnagian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:25:47 +0200
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Really good information, Mike!
This could really be another tip on the RoHS iceberg. I believe that high
lead-content solders have been around for quite a few years, but this could be
that there is a "new" succeptibility for high lead solders associated with the
higher processing temperatures associated with
SAC305 assembly processes?
This looks like something that should be hitting the CPUs, as well. The really
sad thing about this is that the general public is oblivious to the uncertain
product quality that they are laying down their money for.
And if anyone in industry tries to wake them, that person's employer will get a
blackeye, the we all know what that will result in for the employee.
Very troubling,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Finczak
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Niki, Bert and Ed,
Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
the use of High Lead solder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html
Regards,
Mike Finczak
CopperCAD Design
www.CopperCAD.com
905-488-8958
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Bert!
Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:46:26 -0700
From: Steve Smith <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hello Ed and Mike
The Truth Is Out There.
Just refer the general public to this Knol(a unit of knowledge, courtesy of
Google), published in Google's new on-line encyclopedia:
http://knol.google.com/k/steve-smith/tin-whiskers/e1osj187cpek/6#
Tell your local radio station, television station and newspaper anywhere in the
world that here is the Truth about a very controversial hot story.
Steve Smith
> Really good information, Mike!
> This could really be another tip on the RoHS iceberg. I believe that
> high lead-content solders have been around for quite a few years, but
> this could be that there is a "new" succeptibility for high lead
> solders associated with the higher processing temperatures associated
> with SAC305 assembly processes?
> This looks like something that should be hitting the CPUs, as well.
> The really sad thing about this is that the general public is
> oblivious to the uncertain product quality that they are laying down
> their money for. And if anyone in industry tries to wake them, that
> person's employer will get a blackeye, the we all know what that will
> result in for the employee.
> Very troubling,
> Ed
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Finczak
> Sent: 2008 Aug 26 10:53 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
> Niki, Bert and Ed,
> Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
> Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
> the use of High Lead solder.
> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html
> Regards,
> Mike Finczak
> CopperCAD Design
> www.CopperCAD.com
> 905-488-8958
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
> Hi, Bert!
> Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it
> is a good example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
> These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points.
> They are used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects
> in devices that have very high power densities.
> Best regards,
> Ed
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
> Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
> Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
> Welcome to our world
> Best Regards,
> Bert Mason
> Quality Engineer
> Formation Inc.
> Building 1
> 121 Whittendale Dr.
> Moorestown, NJ 08057
> Phone: 856-380-2956
> Fax: 856-234-5242
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
> To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
> Hi,
> I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have
> seen that there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more
> than 85% lead). Not having done any more research on the subject I
> was
> wondering:
> * Why the exemption exists?
> * Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
> Maybe
> the temperature is unacceptably high?
> I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent
> lights.
> Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in
> landfills each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable
> while ALL lead had to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead
> in batteries are exempt. There is probably more lead in my car
> battery than in a thousand PC motherboards and how many of these
> batteries end up in landfills each year?
> Just seems strangely warped...
> Regards,
> Niki
> E-mail Disclaimer
> http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
> The information contained in this message may be confidential and
> legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely
> for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or
> reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be
> unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
--
Best regards,
Steve Smith
www.consultingscientist.us
http://www.pickensplan.com/
------------------------------
From: Engelmaier@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:21:39 EDT
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi Ed,
There are a number of possible and possibly interacting scenarios.
1) larger CPU chips are subject to larger 'global' and 'local' thermal
expansion mismatches-- using eutectic SnPb does help the 'global'
mismatch and there is a design solution for the 'local' mismatch;
2) the higher soldering T's required for SAC solders produce larger 'global'
and 'local' thermal expansion mismatches--that is a direct fault of RoHS;
3) reduced solder joint thickness [to reduce overall package thickness]
produces higher cyclic SJ strains for the same 'global' expansion mismatch.
Werner
Future workshops:
Pb-Free Soldering Processes: Survival, Quality, Reliability, September 3,
Stockholm, Sweden Reliability Issues with Lead-Free Soldering Processes,
September 22, Schaumburg Failure Mode and Root Cause Analyses Reliability
(Fatigue, Brittle Fracture, ENIG), September 22, Schaumburg Solder Joint
Reliability: Parts 1 & 4, Oct. 9, Moscow, Russia Solder Joint Reliability: Part
4, Oct. 17, Timisoara, Rumania Solder Joint
Reliability: Parts 1 & 4, Oct. 22, Tallinn, Estonia
**************
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
------------------------------
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:21:43 -0400
From: "Fritz, Dennis D." <DENNIS.D.FRITZ@xxxxxxxx>
What is being described here is the C4 technology of flip chips. Here is a
Wikipedia link to the description of "Controlled Collapse Chip Connection" -
the C4. High lead balls have been used in this application since IBM invented
this in the 60's, and I think this is the basis for the RoHS exemption. Now
that eutectic or SAC are being considered, I would expect the RoHS exemption to
go away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip
Denny Fritz, SAIC
________________________________
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike Finczak
Sent: Tue 8/26/2008 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Niki, Bert and Ed,
Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
the use of High Lead solder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html
Regards,
Mike Finczak
CopperCAD Design
www.CopperCAD.com
905-488-8958
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Bert!
Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:31:02 -0700
From: "White, Robert" <Robert.White@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I don't think it will go away anytime soon since the exemption is also used for
die attach in high power semi-conductors used in power diodes, IGBT's and
FET's. Power supplies, as well as many other applications, including power
conversion for all the new alternative energy solutions, require high power
semi-conductors.
Best Regards,
Bob White
Director of Safety and Environmental Compliance
Power-One, Inc.
Tel: (805) 384-5391
Cell: (805) 469-4347
________________________________
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fritz, Dennis D.
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:22 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
What is being described here is the C4 technology of flip chips. Here is a
Wikipedia link to the description of "Controlled Collapse Chip Connection" -
the C4. High lead balls have been used in this application since IBM invented
this in the 60's, and I think this is the basis for the RoHS exemption. Now
that eutectic or SAC are being considered, I would expect the RoHS exemption to
go away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip
Denny Fritz, SAIC
________________________________
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Mike Finczak
Sent: Tue 8/26/2008 10:53 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Niki, Bert and Ed,
Take a look at this article posted on TomsHardware regarding
Nvidia GPU failures. The failures may have been caused by
the use of High Lead solder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GPU-failure,6248.html
Regards,
Mike Finczak
CopperCAD Design
www.CopperCAD.com
905-488-8958
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Parnagian, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:04 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi, Bert!
Yes, it seems inconsistent with the stated objectives of RoHS, but it is a good
example of what pushing back with data can achieve.
These high lead-content solders all have very high melting points. They are
used by device manufacturers to make internal interconnects in devices that
have very high power densities.
Best regards,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mason, Bert
Sent: 2008 Aug 26 8:32 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Abandon all rationality Ye who enter the world of RoHS and the EU.
Welcome to our world
Best Regards,
Bert Mason
Quality Engineer
Formation Inc.
Building 1
121 Whittendale Dr.
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Phone: 856-380-2956
Fax: 856-234-5242
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niki Steenkamp
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:24 AM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Exemption on high temperature lead solder
Hi,
I have been looking over some of the official RoHS documents and have seen that
there is an exemption on high temperature lead solder (more than 85% lead).
Not having done any more research on the subject I was
wondering:
* Why the exemption exists?
* Why not use more than 85% lead to circumvent the pure tin problem?
Maybe
the temperature is unacceptably high?
I also noticed that mercury is limited but not banned in fluorescent lights.
Just thinking of the millions of fluorescent lights being dumped in landfills
each year I cannot see how this can be viewed as acceptable while ALL lead had
to be removed from electronics. Furthermore, lead in batteries are exempt.
There is probably more lead in my car battery than in a thousand PC
motherboards and how many of these batteries end up in landfills each year?
Just seems strangely warped...
Regards,
Niki
E-mail Disclaimer
http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally
protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the
addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.
------------------------------
End of tinwhiskers Digest V1 #70
********************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
The information contained within this e-mail and any attachments contained
therein may be confidential and/or legally privileged and is for the use of the
intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it
from your system and notify the sender by return e-mail. The content of this
e-mail may not be copied or disclosed to any third parties without prior
permission from the sender.
E-mail is susceptible to data corruption, interception, tampering and viruses.
We do not accept any liability for any such incidents or any consequences
thereof.
Other related posts:
