John and all, Please don't worry about this. Stephen Hawking won a prize from the Gravitational Research Foundation in 1973 for a landmark paper proving that black holes radiate, and the smaller ones radiate faster, and the radiation rate increases very rapidly as they get smaller. That, incidentally, is why there are not any quantum black holes. They are about as unstable as you could get, self-converting into radiation in one Chronon (a quantum unit of time. I have no idea how small it is, but it's very small). The mass-equivalence of 17 Tev is more than twelve orders of magnitude below a microgram, according to my "The Energy Level of Things" on my wall here. I could have calculated it but it's been a long day and this was faster. Even if we could make a 100Kg black hole, we would need something almost twenty orders of magnitude bigger than that piddly little Large Hadron Collider. Avogadro's number looks about right. Relax. Those folks publishing that paper evidently never read Hawking's paper, or looked at the energy level of things. Steve Smith ps: John, please forward to those other lists; I'm not subscribed to them. JB> Just a little food for thought. JB> While we are busily falling into line with materials policy dictates from JB> Europe based on the precautionary principal, I thought you might find it JB> interesting to see what is taking place in Europe with total disregard for JB> the same principal. JB> As you are probably aware the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) project blew up JB> last year during commissioning. The collider is able to collide particles JB> with energy levels up to I believe 17TeV, and is in the process of being JB> repaired prior to re-commissioning. JB> At this power the scientists involved are expecting to find new particles JB> and are also anticipating the production of 5 dimensional black holes as an JB> outcome. JB> The attached reference link is to the high energy particle physics site. The JB> paper entitled "On the Possibility of Catastrophic Black Hole Growth in the JB> Warped Brane-World Scenario at the LHC" Describes the "likely" size of such JB> black holes and assures that they are not liable to reach a "critical mass" JB> of 100Kg - at which point presumably everything in the area would be sucked JB> into said black hole swiftly followed by the rest of the solar JB> system.....they did not probe that scenario... JB> Here are the links: JB> http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0901/0901.2948v2.pdf JB> and... JB> http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.2948 JB> No I am not joking this is a real paper on a real site - and I for one just JB> hope that their assumptions and math about particles they have never seen JB> are correct. JB> So much for the "precautionary principal"! JB> John Burke -- Best regards, Steve mailto:steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.consultingscientist.us http://www.pickensplan.com/