Hi, This is a valid point, but if the government forced you to live in a lice infested area, while denying that lice exist, the best way to prove them wrong is to make public the infestation. I know it is very difficult to pin-point a failure as having been caused by tin-whiskers (the evidence is often destroyed in the failure, the whiskers are hard to spot to the untrained eye, etc), but reporting failures that can without doubt be blamed on tin whiskers resulting from RoHS, is the best way to give substance to a case against RoHS. I think it is necessary that people investigating failures on all levels, must be sensitized to look for tin-whisker related problems. And then, if found, they must be made visible in a database like the NPL one Stephen Enviado mailed about on this list (http://defectsdatabase.npl.co.uk/). BTW, is anyone aware of any other such public databases? Regards, Niki ________________________________ From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gabriele Sala Sent: 06 June 2008 12:42 AM To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tinwhiskers] R: Re: ACE Develops Lead Tinning System I have never seen a Mom publicize when her kids have air infested with lice (louses ? pidocchi ? ), Who have them, they keep them as a secret !!! :-(. NASA has nothing to loose by saying the true. Small Companies could loose the little remaining job ( after Globalization plus RoHS) if they tell the true about whiskers growing on their electronic assemblies. Best Regards Gabriele Sala -----Messaggio originale----- Da: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Per conto di Niki Steenkamp Inviato: mercoledì 4 giugno 2008 10.18 A: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Oggetto: [tinwhiskers] Re: ACE Develops Lead Tinning System Hi, I have only been following this list for a month or so, but I was wondering if there has been any tin-whisker failure documented that can be attributed to RoHS. All the NASA and other tin-whisker failure reports I have seen are from the pre-RoHS era (which goes to show that even without RoHS we had problems!). Most "modern" papers demonstrate whisker growth in lab environments. Although all of this is relevant and should at the very least blink red warning lights in our minds, I do not think anybody will really sit up and take notice until things start failing AND it can be proven that it is due to RoHS. It is sad, but that is how humans work. And with so many Pb-free systems in the field by now, failures should start occurring. Maybe we should focus not on waiting until the first airplane falls form the sky, but rather look for tin-whisker related problems in everyday electronics of which there are many more potential candidates. Build up a solid database of verifyable RoHS failures and we will have undeniable proof. I was recently in a SMD manufacturing seminar where a fairly well respected international expert stated that he does not believe tin whiskers are a reality in real life and that they occur only in labs. Scary. Regards, Niki Steenkamp ________________________________ From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Lau Hon-Shing Sent: 04 June 2008 01:35 AM To: Engelmaier@xxxxxxx; tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: ACE Develops Lead Tinning System Dear Werner: As I said I totally agreed with you that it is not ACE's fault/problem. When I was at Agilent, we also did re-balling to replace the SAC balls to SnPb balls. Even all of our products are out of the scope of EU RoHS, however, all the DRAM (in PBGA) already concerted to lead-free and our products need more than 20 years of lives. By the way, I just told Michelle this morning that I cannot go to London this time and asked her to give all my registrants to you. Please talk to her! Thanks & Best Wishes! John H. Lau Microsystems, Modules & Components Laboratory Institute of Microelectronics (IME) 11 Science Park Road Singapore Science Park II Singapore 117685 TEL:(65)6770-5424; lauhs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ________________________________ From: Engelmaier@xxxxxxx [mailto:Engelmaier@xxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 07:16 AM To: John Lau Hon-Shing; tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [tinwhiskers] Re: ACE Develops Lead Tinning System Hi John, In your world-that is mass-produced consumer products, the pragmatic view has to be that the Pb-ban is a fact of life. And with these products it is a fact of life. But what do I tell a client with a 24-layer 250-mil thick PCB with 4 power- and ground-layers who has to put BGAs on it. They do not fall under RoHS. They do not sell in the EU, China, Japan, Korea, etc. What I tell them is to re-ball to Sn37 AND use vapor phase-works like a charm. That is why people develop these systems to re-coat, re-ball, etc., because there is a market for it, that cannot be met with Pb-free solders [they do not want to go the Bi- or In-route]. See you in London at NEW. Werner Future workshops: Reliability Issues with Lead-Free Soldering Processes, June 17, London Interconnect Failures and Design for Reliability for PCB PTHs, June 17, London Pb-Free Soldering Processes-Survival, Quality, Reliability, August 18, Orlando Reliability Issues with Lead-Free Soldering Processes, September 22, Schaumburg Failure Mode and Root Cause Analyses Reliability (Fatigue, Brittle Fracture, ENIG), September 22, Schaumburg ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________ NOTE: If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please notify the sender and delete it. 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