[tinwhiskers] Re: Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
- From: <Victor_G_Hernandez@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:11:21 -0600
All of my Chevy product that I have owned have that capability. Since 1955.
Victor,
-----Original Message-----
From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Phil Shewmaker
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:03 PM
To: tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>can you do that when it's running, or do they only shift
out of Drive when at a dead stop<<<
I think it depends on the vehicle. My 04 Expedition AWSV (All Weather Sales
Vehicle) has a colum shifter that will go to neutral anytime. My wife's 09
Lincoln MKX with console shifter will only if you hold in the release button
first, which could let you accidently go all the way to reverse or even park.
Would be hard on the timing belts/gears to do so with a runaway (can you say
rapid disassembly?), but better than crashing!
A friend of mine had the breaks go out on this 68 Galaxie, doing around 35. He
shoved it into park. Made a wierd grinding-down sound as the car slowed,
believe it or not, the transmission was fine afterwards (they really built them
then!)
Shew
Steve Smith wrote:
> Hello Victor,
>
> I didn't know that; I favor Classic Detroit Iron myself, and drive a
> 1967 Ford Farilane '289. How about putting the gearshift from Drive
> into Neutral: can you do that when it's running, or do they only shift
> out of Drive when at a dead stop?
>
> If that's the case, then any "modern" car is a death-trap, and when
> the Trial Lawyers Association finds out, they will have a field day.
>
> Steve Smith
>
> VDc> The car has to be in neutral to turn off, Old days was OK., not now
>
> VDc> Victor,
>
> VDc> -----Original Message-----
> VDc> From: tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> VDc> [mailto:tinwhiskers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
> VDc> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:20 PM
> VDc> To: Bob Landman
> VDc> Subject: [tinwhiskers] Re: Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers
> VDc> induced failures - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite
> complaints
>
> VDc> Runaway cars are no fun; most people panic, and in a panic state
> VDc> intelligence goes to zero; they forget that they can stop the thing by
> VDc> just turning the ignition key to OFF.
>
> VDc> Steve Smith
>
> BL>> Just as I predicted, the increased use of electronics in
> BL>> automobiles when mixed with RoHS can make for a deadly cocktail.
> BL>> We don't know (this article doesn't say) what the causative agent
> BL>> was, but I have heard recently of brand new autos showing up at
> BL>> dealers that will not start. That cause has been linked to tin whiskers.
>
> BL>> I cannot fathom how foolish the industry was to rush to adopt
> BL>> lead-free manufacturing without first solving the well known risks
> BL>> such as tin whiskers. When I read comments such as "SAC405 is
> BL>> known to suppress whisker growth" I have to laugh. There is so
> BL>> much misinformation being cast about, it's ludicrous.
>
> BL>> Toyoda better do as they've been advised if they are using
> BL>> lead-free manufacturing (and even if they are not as the parts are
> BL>> lead-free now so even IF you use SnPb solder you still will be
> BL>> subjected to tin whisker induced failures.
>
> BL>> And people will die, make no mistake about that.
>
> BL>> Bob Landman
> BL>> Life Senior Member, IEEE
> BL>> President, CTO
> BL>> H&L Instruments,LLC
>
> BL>>
> BL>>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971.html?wpisrc=nl_pmheadline
>
> BL>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>
> BL>> By Peter Whoriskey
> BL>> Washington Post Staff Writer
> BL>> Friday, January 29, 2010; A16
>
> BL>> Toyota Motor began facing complaints of runaway cars years ago,
> BL>> but the company did not install "brake override" systems in those
> BL>> vehicles, even as several other automakers deployed the technology to
> address such malfunctions.
>
> BL>> The brake override systems allow a driver to stop a car with the
> BL>> footbrake even if the accelerator is depressed and the vehicle is
> BL>> running at full throttle. The systems are an outgrowth of new
> BL>> electronics in cars, specifically in engine control.
>
> BL>> "If the brake and the accelerator are in an argument, the brake
> BL>> wins," a spokesman at Chrysler said in describing the systems,
> BL>> which it began installing in 2003.
>
> BL>> Volkswagen, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz also install such systems
> BL>> in at least some of their cars, the companies and industry experts
> BL>> said, some as far back as 10 years ago. General Motors installs
> BL>> brake override in all of its cars in which it is possible for the
> BL>> engine at full throttle to overwhelm the brakes.
>
> BL>> "Most other automakers have adopted this technology," said Sean
> BL>> Kane, a former researcher at the Center for Auto Safety who now
> BL>> works at Safety Research and Strategies. Not adding the systems
> BL>> "is one of the mistakes that created this perfect storm for Toyota."
>
> BL>> Toyota did not respond Thursday to questions about its decisions
> involving brake override.
>
> BL>> But at the Detroit Auto Show in December, Toyota North America
> BL>> President Yoshi Inaba said the company would begin equipping its
> BL>> vehicles with brake override. His comments followed a November
> BL>> statement from the company that the override system would be made
> BL>> standard on Toyota and Lexus vehicles starting with some models in
> January 2010.
>
> BL>> The precaution comes too late, however, to forestall a tsunami of
> BL>> negative publicity that has engulfed the company since it halted
> BL>> production and suspended sales of eight popular models after
> BL>> reports of unintended acceleration. For a company that famously
> BL>> aimed to become the largest automaker in the world by touting a
> BL>> reputation for reliability and safety, it has been a striking turnaround.
>
> BL>> The company has blamed the accelerations on faulty floor mats and
> BL>> their installation, as well as defective accelerator pedals, which
> BL>> they are seeking to redesign. The brake override systems, when
> BL>> they come, will provide a measure of redundancy.
>
> BL>> It was not immediately clear how much it would cost to install
> BL>> the brake override systems, and industry experts said the costs of
> BL>> the control technology are difficult to measure.
>
> BL>> "There's really no cost, but it's a critical skill issue -- we
> BL>> can only find so many people who can do this kind of work," said a
> BL>> senior engineer at a major automaker, who spoke on the condition
> BL>> of anonymity. "It would require a bunch of software and
> BL>> development people to design it, but spread across lots of cars,
> BL>> the money involved would be negligible. . . . No one wants a runaway."
>
> BL>> As far back as 2004, government investigators were looking at
> BL>> 2002-2003 Toyota Camrys and Solaras and Lexus ES 300s to determine
> BL>> whether they were defective, gathering information about 37 owner
> BL>> complaints of sudden acceleration, according to the Center for Auto
> Safety.
>
> BL>> Automotive experts said that in at least some of those incidents,
> BL>> a brake override system could have prevented harm.
>
> BL>> In the accident that has drawn perhaps the most publicity, a 2009
> BL>> Lexus ES 350 raced through San Diego, weaving at 120 miles an hour
> BL>> through rush-hour freeway traffic. Veteran California Highway
> BL>> Patrol officer Mark Saylor was at the wheel, with his wife,
> BL>> teenage daughter and brother-in-law aboard.
>
> BL>> "We're in trouble. . . . There's no brakes," Saylor's
> BL>> brother-in-law told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. As they
> BL>> approached an intersection, and the end of the road, the
> BL>> passengers could be heard urging each other to pray. All four died.
>
> BL>> Afterward, investigators said that it appeared the brakes had
> BL>> been applied for so long that the brake pads melted, according to
> BL>> a report by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
>
> BL>> Had a brake override system been at work, the engine would have
> BL>> been depowered -- not turned off, but slowed.
>
> BL>> Until recently, an accelerator pedal opened the throttle
> BL>> mechanically. But newer pedals control the engine via sensors and a
> computer.
>
> BL>> The new throttle electronics and software have often themselves
> BL>> been the focus of some suspicion in the runaway crashes.
>
> BL>> Whatever the causes of accidents, engineers noted that there are
> BL>> trade-offs in using brake override systems. For example, some
> BL>> customers prefer to be able to apply the brake and step on the
> BL>> accelerator without reducing power to the engine, especially in
> high-performance driving.
>
> BL>> Toyota, moreover, is not the only automaker to eschew the fail-safe
> technology.
>
> BL>> In an e-mail, Honda spokeswoman Christina Ra said that "Honda and
> BL>> Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and
> BL>> accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application
> BL>> of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's
> intention."
>
> BL>> But experts said that the value of the brake override systems is
> BL>> that they can mitigate acceleration problems no matter where they
> BL>> come from. Toyota, as well as the NHTSA, appear to have struggled
> BL>> in diagnosing exactly what is causing the trouble.
>
> BL>> "A brake override system can paper over a multitude of mistakes," Kane
> said.
>
>
> BL>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
> BL>> virus signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>
> BL>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> BL>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Phil Shewmaker
Shewmaker Electronics, Inc
800-330-5409
Shew@Shewmaker Electronics.com
www.ShewmakerElectronics.com
UPCOMING EVENTS:
Indiana Statewide Assn of
Rural Electric Co-ops
Indianapolis Hilton North
November 4-6, 2009
IEEE PES T&D Conference & Expo:
New Orleans, LA
April 19-22, 2010
www.ieeet-d.org <http://www.ieeet-d.org>
Mid South Electric Meter School
May 3-7, 2010
Wilderness of the Smokies Resort
Sevierville, TN
www.MSEMA.com
Great Lakes Electric Meter School
August 9-12, 2010
Crowne Plaza AIrport
Grand Rapids, MI
www.GLEMS.org
Other related posts:
