[tinwhiskers] AW: RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: IPC expresses concerns on possible ROHS revisions
- From: "Klaus Reindl" <klaus-reindl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'John Burke'" <john@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Henning Leidecker'" <henning.w.leidecker@xxxxxxxx>, "'Brusse, Jay A. \(GSFC-560.0\)[QSS]'" <jay.a.brusse@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:32:29 +0200
Dear John,
since I still have connections to several former RoHS workgroups
(German ZVEI and several automotive Tier 1 suppliers), I would be very
interested in specifics
of the Xbox 360 casus.
I only have heard and read very general info-one was that a processor was
"thermally overstressed due to
a board design flaw".
But the source of this info can be ranked close to rumour.
So, if you have proven facts, please disseminate them.
Thanks a lot, nice week and kind regards,
Klaus
_____
Von: John Burke [mailto:john@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. August 2008 23:10
An: RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
klaus-reindl@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A.
(GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Betreff: [!! SPAM] RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
Interesting comment - apologies for the late reply but I have been
travelling.
Unexpected catastrophe? I guess that 3.5 billion dollars that had to be
reserved by Microsoft as a result of all of it's Xbox 360 processors being
unreliable due to lead free could be cataloged under that heading??
John Burke
(408) 515 4992
_____
From: RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:56 AM
To: RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; tinwhiskers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
klaus-reindl@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A.
(GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses concerns
on possible ROHS revisions
Dear Klaus,
Thank you for your kind comments. I noted that you said that
"the bulk of the transition to Pb-free is or will be done. So far, we have
not heard of an unexpected catastrophe."
I would remind everyone that there have been some well documented failures,
including at nuclear power plants. See http://nepp.
<http://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/failures/index.htm>
nasa.gov/WHISKER/failures/index.htm and this website is always being updated
with new facts of failures.
The problem is that NASA knows of many failures but are not permitted to
share them all as the manufacturers and military/aerospace agencies who come
to them for help and failure analysis, forbid them to disclose the problems.
What manufacturer wants to wash it's dirty laundry in public?
So, how will we know of these failures? Will Sony and Toshiba and Philips
and Siemens tell us? Or will the products that fail, fail intermittantly,
fail and be thrown away in some landfill (not recycled)? Isn't this more
likely to happen since we have had failures and there is no lead free solder
that prohibits whiskers (and yes, even lead solders have very tiny (5 micron
gnarly)whiskers, I know that).
So, how many failures does it take to convince the EU they have made a
terrible mistake?
Inquiring minds would certainly like to know where that trip point is! 100?
1000? 10,000? A million? Do they care at all?
Bob Landman, President
Senior Member, IEEE PES
H&L Instruments, LLC
34 Post Road, PO Box 580
North Hampton, NH 03862-0580
(tel) 603-964-1818 (fax) 603-964-8881
www.hlinstruments. <http://www.hlinstruments.com> com
________________________________
From: RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Klaus Reindl
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 2:46 AM
To: RoHSUSAPushback@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: AW: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses concerns
on possible ROHS revisions
Bob,
thank you for your valuable inputs.
For European manufacturers they may look a bit biased, given that the RoSH
legislation has been put in practice pretty much.
For the US, it may be a well-balanced view, since (in my view), RoHS has not
at all found broad acceptance in the US.
Of course, also in Europe the Pandora's box of problems with the main
replacement for the eutectic PbSn solder system-Sn outerleads plating and
SAC or doped SnCu solders are known: Poorer wettability, poorer reliability
under slow dT/dt excursions, lower performance in drop tets, Sn whiskers on
non-soldered, Sn plated Cu or Alloy 42 lead surfaces.
In order to eliminate or at least decrease those problems, many measures,
based on material sciences, have been introduced on the component and board
soldering sides.
But as you state, the problems could not be solved completely yet.
Especially the Sn whisker issue is still open. The whisker stress tests
-called accelerating, without any acceleration factor being known-are more
of a pacifier for worried moods rather than a scientifically based approach.
By the way, Sn whiskers also were reported with eutectic SnPb plating and
soilders, albeit on a much lower scale.
But it is fruitless to again and again scrape in open wounds.
At least here in Europe and in Japan and soon in China and Korea and
California (to name a few), the bulk of the transition to Pb-free is or will
be done.
So far, we have not heard of an unexpected catastrophe.
It only leaves us engineers to stay vigilant, in order to avoid more
regulation without valid physics background, being enforced on the industry.
Best regards,
Klaus Reindl
__._,_.___
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