Seems to me that if you have farms around the world depending on a = single data store that it would been to be fault tolerant in a true = active-active scenario, i.e. all instances have all the information and can accept = reads and writes. Is this possible with MS SQL??? Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax=20 steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On = Behalf Of Lilley, Brian Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:03 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: high availability also, if you had four marooned sites with read/write replica's of the = Data Store, how would you recover from this in terms of re-syncing the = databases? Thanks, -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Lilley, Brian Sent: 11 May 2004 16:49 To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: high availability Big Ron,=20 When you say "SQL server", I assume you are referring to SQL based relational database servers in general and not specifically to MS SQL server. Ok, now I may be being totally over-pessimistic about = publisher/subscriber replication here, but do you think it would be feasible to operate = something like the following: as part of a controlled maintenance window, point a server to the master copy of the datastore for the duration of updates = to the data store? =20 Are the benefits gained by having a simpler replication topology = outweighed by the amount of effort to provide a maintenance schedule like above. I = am ultra paranoid about a single global farm replicated between 8+ servers. Would you trust the publisher/subscriber model for 8+ Data Store global single farm? Do you trust DSCHECK? Am I worrying too much? =20 thanks in advance, Brian =20 -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ron Oglesby Sent: 11 May 2004 13:46 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: high availability Well. One thing that I can say is any location you have a Citrix server using a SQL server the DB should be read/write/. Now what do I mean by = that? I mean that you should be using a publisher/subscriber model with transactional replication/immediate updating. This will allow the = changes from servers talking to the subscriber to be pushed up to the Publisher (master) written into the DS, then replicated to all servers. The trick with this is that any servers online are going to have changes = (of some type, print drivers added, hotfixes added, etc). And these changes = need to update the DS. So I would not use a straight push for any SQL server = with hot online servers connecting to it. Now to use one as a COLD SQL server = you can do that. But lets assume a site loss. You have lost 50-75 servers in = one site along with the Datastore. Now you have a shipped Database to = another site. And you are going to start installing servers into that site to = get you up to capacity. All the shipping did was handle your published apps = and licenses for the most part, since the 75 servers are "gone" but remain = as ghosts in the DS and you still have to get a bunch of servers on line. Get it? Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect Microsoft MVP - Windows Server =20 RapidApp, Chicago Mobile 815 325-7618 Office 312 372-7188 e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx =20 -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On = Behalf Of Lilley, Brian Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:10 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: high availability Big Ron, Thanks again for your response. I will be replicating a master read/write copy of the database to = perhaps 5 major regional sites and maybe a couple more at a push. =20 Again, back to the DR hot-sites, should I make a data store present = there also? I guess it's a balance between reducing the complexity of the data store replication and having a truly 'marooned' DR site available almost immediately. Personally, from the feelings I got from this list, I would tend = towards keeping the data store replication to a minimum and allowing the DR = scenario the Citrix grace period to restore a data store onto an Oracle box which = is pretty straight forward. When I first asked about data store replication some weeks ago, I = mentioned replication to ten servers globally for a single farm model (and most of = the old timers winced slightly). I am still looking to move forward with a global single farm with data store replication to a reduced number, prob = 5 or so... do you guys still hold the same view? Also, can DSCHECK.EXE be trusted as a signature for health on the IMA = data store? best regards, Brian -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ron Oglesby Sent: 10 May 2004 20:07 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: high availability Simple answer. No it does not need to be clustered. Complicated = answer... maybe.=20 I mean the real trick is how many (and what type) of changes will you = need to make if it is unavailable. In most cases your answer will be none. We = can operate without making changes to the DS for a couple of days. If that = is true then you don't need the cluster.=20 Replication or shipping of the DB/Logs is needed though for any type of = DR. Of course there are drawbacks to this too. I mean If you use = transactional replication then when the primary is gone you cant make changes anyway (until you turn the subscriber into the publisher). So it all depends.=20 Hey, I can come out and work on this with ya. It sounds fun and right up = my alley.=20 Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect Microsoft MVP - Windows Server =20 RapidApp, Chicago Mobile 815 325-7618 Office 312 372-7188 e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx =20 -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On = Behalf Of Lilley, Brian Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:39 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] high availability Chaps, I need to draw on your experiences again... Does the primary IMA Data Store really need to be clustered, or is this = more complication than it is worth. KISS principle, etc.? I appreciate that high availability is important, but isn't the = integrity of the database even more important. Without a Data Store, what's the = worse that could happen during the 96 hours, you can't make changes?? If something was seriously wrong the master IMA Data Store cluster node = A, would we want the second cluster to take over? Is there not a further chance of corrupting data by having this nice-ity?? If the Data Store becomes unavailable, presumably an app server can = still boot from the contents of the LHC? thanks,=20 Brian =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you = received this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message = was misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network. Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until = they are confirmed by us. 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SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest = constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real = constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you = received this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message = was misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network. 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SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest = constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real = constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you = received this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message = was misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network. Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until = they are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be = secure. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest = constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real = constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you = received this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message = was misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network. Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until = they are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be = secure. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =3D=3D ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest = constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real = constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=3D147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thin.net/links.cfm *********************************************************** For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20 set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. 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