[THIN] Re: blades versus VMWARE

  • From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:06:54 -0700

Dennis- ramble on !

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
Behalf
Of Parker, Dennis
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 12:32 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: blades versus VMWARE


I'll second this. =20

My situation is such that I have a fairly small farm (less than 100 =
users)
but I require 100% uptime (except for nightly reboots and that was a =
hard
sell).  So, I can't justify having one big box running my Citrix farm =
even
though it would easily support my user load.  I can justify having =
several
small servers, like I have now, but that still requires hardware and =
rack
space and heating and power consumption and...Or I can install several =
small
servers on a VMWare setup with a bit larger hardware base and install =
other
servers (DNS, AD, WINS, DHCP and on...) along side my Citrix servers on =
the
same hardware.  I get the added DR functionality, faster time to =
deployment
of a new server and all the savings of not having all that hardware to
manage.  Now with Virtual Center, I have one central location for my =
Console
access (and I can get there remotely) for all my servers.  I have =
control
over the power switch remotely.  Then there's all the performance graphs =
for
the manager types.  The alerting capability.  Control over server =
processes.


Alright, I'll stop rambling now. =20

Dennis Parker, MCSE, CCA
Senior Systems Analyst
Fiserv EFT
4550 SW Macadam Ave, Ste 100
Portland, Or. 97239
Direct: 503-274-6785
Fax:    503-274-6619
=20
This e-mail is confidential and may well be legally privileged.   If you
have received it in error, you are on notice of its status.   Please =
notify
us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your
system.   Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose =
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Thank you for your cooperation.   Please contact me if you need =
assistance.



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday April 16, 2004 9:35 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: blades versus VMWARE



I agree that if you need max performance and user count for Metaframe
dedicated hardware is better. However, there are MANY underutilized =3D =
Citrix
farms out there with poor change management and no recovery provisions. =
=3D
So, on a pure performance curve you would stick with dedicated hardware,
however, when other factors are more important such as DR, management, =
=3D
ease of provisioning new servers, VMWare offers many advantages.

Having said that though, this is probably still the minority of
environments. It is very much a case by case assessment, I am just lucky
that we had a customer recently who it truly was the best choice for.

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf Of Chris Lynch
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:30 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: blades versus VMWARE


I know that most people view Vmware as a great way for DR.  But with a =
=3D MF
server, it's quite easy to get it up and running again.  My question is =
=3D
why would you still want to use Vmware for MF, especially on a blade =
server?
=3D Ok, maybe the BL series from HP, but surely not the PE1655MC.  Your =
MF =3D
servers are going to need all of the resources of the physical box.  You
gain nothing (maybe 2-5 more users per VM; maybe) with MF within a VM.

I just don't see MF within a VM as a viable solution (with the ONLY
exception of DR, but isn't that what Ghost/Sysprep images are for?).

I see VM as a great solution to web servers, DNS servers, F&P servers, =
=3D DB
servers, etc.  I just don't see VM as a great solution for production MF
servers.  Dev lab/environment; oh hell yeah.  Production; I just don't =
=3D
think you gain yourself anything (again, with the exception of DR).

Chris=3D20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf Of Shonk, Joe - Perot
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:48 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: blades versus VMWARE

So why not run VMWare on blades?

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Luchette, Jon [mailto:JLuchette@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:20 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] blades versus VMWARE


Just wanted to get a discussion going on a decision that I am trying to
tackle in terms of MF...  Right now our environment looks like this: =3D =
seven
MF servers running MF XP FR3 on Windows 2k Server sp4, 2 NFuse servers =
=3D
also with CSG installed on both running Win2k Advanced Server sp4, and =
all
servers are Compaq DL 360's (some G1, some G2)  with dual 1ghz =3D =
processors
and 2gb RAM, we have a SAN now (HP EVA 5000) but are not currently =3D =
housing
any MF data on it.=3D20 =3D20 Ideally we would be able to install MF on =
some new
blade servers, house =3D the data on the SAN, and utilize VMWARE as =
well.
That is not going to =3D happen here, we just don't have the money for =
it.
However, we may have the =3D money for either one OR the other.  All =
things
considered in terms of MF in particular, which one would you rather have =
in
your data center and why? =3D  I know they do different things, but when =
you
match those things up =3D against one another, which one has more
advantages?=3D20 =3D20 /jL =3D20

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This week's sponsor - Neoware Thin Clients
Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
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Neoware makes computing open, secure, reliable,=20
affordable, manageable and obsolete-free.=20
Starting at $199!=20
http://www.neoware.com=20
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