[THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
- From: "Rob Beekmans" <R.Beekmans@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:57:18 +0200
oke, let's also get involved in this thread....
We have customers running with linux servers (mail, File, Print and Fax
services) that are running for months now without any issues....
...and I can't say that about the Windows servers.....
Lucas wrote:
Windows has a larger market share and is used for more applications at
this point in time than Linux.
__
Do you really think that any small company, about 30 users will care
about the market share of Microsoft.....they want functionality...
They ask us we want mail on each workplace and a server to store data
and perhaps if possible fax from each workstation.....
We calculated this for a customer with 20 workstation to compare the
upgrade from NT4 / Exchange 5.5 to Windows 2000/Exchange 2000 and
compared it with the upgrade costs to Linux. the difference is 7800
Euro's....for what, what extra usefull functionality does Microsoft with
Windows and Exchange give oppossed to Linux?
also he wrote:
However, with open source does come problems that you don't have in a
closed environment that Microsoft enjoys. We must remain objective
___
wonder where all those bugs come from with windows and Exchange???? you
wrote to much cooks in one kitchen etc etc, doesn't this apply to
Microsoft too? only there they work for one company........With the open
source communitiy you have more objective people looking at changes
becasue they don't work for the same comapny and they have no commercial
goal...at least less than those guys at Microsoft.
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards
Rob Beekmans
Technical Consultant
A-Tree Automatisering
Business Phone: +31 24 6452000
Business Fax: +31 24 6450463
Business website: http://www.a-tree.nl <http://www.a-tree.nl/>
Business E-mail: R.Beekmans@xxxxxxxxx
Private E-mail: RobBeekmans@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Private website: http://joulupukki.nl <http://joulupukki.nl/>
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Mack, Rick [mailto:RMack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Verzonden: donderdag 3 juli 2003 12:18
Aan: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Onderwerp: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
Hi People,
As much as I feel this thread is getting a bit pointless, I can't help
myself ;-).
Have a look at the (sometimes crap) stuff that exchange does and can do
vs what the "equivalent" linux email server does.
If we had as many functional modules built in to the linux code as
Microsoft have with exchange, I can't help wondering what the end result
would be.
The greatest strength in linux, besides the linux community is that
there is nothing as huge and (sort of) ugly as exchange running on
linux.
Complexity begets instability unless you're pretty darn lucky.
regards,
Rick
Ulrich Mack
rmack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Volante Systems
18 Heussler Terrace, Milton 4064
Queensland Australia
tel +61 7 32467704
-----Original Message-----
From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:38 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
In my own experience with MS exchange and a Linux Open Source Email
server (that has the same functionality as exchange ) I have had 458
days of uptime with the Linux version with no issues, bugs, security
flaws(exploits, holes...etc) as with the exchange server I am patching
it every 2 to 4 weeks and their are more security issues with exchange
(Exchange 2000 with sp2 installed their are at least 20 security
exploits and bugs with it right now according to CERT and SANS)
That is why I stated that Linux is more stable. Although the hard data
is from our own deployment of both
Magnus
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lucas Boyken
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:25 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
The comment you made about Linux being more stable than Windows is
subjective. Unless hard data is available, an apples to apples
comparison, I cannot hold this statement to be either true or false.
Windows has a larger market share and is used for more applications at
this point in time than Linux. Open source, I will conceed, is a great
way to work as a community to solve problems. However, the old adage
that too many cooks in a kitchen only spoils the reciepe might apply in
this case. Of course you are bound to see some changes in how the code
works, what it can do, etc. However, with open source does come
problems that you don't have in a closed environment that Microsoft
enjoys. We must remain objective, that is all that I am stressing.
When sweeping comments charge that one is better than the other without
any hard data, that is when we get into battles of opinion instead of
battles of fact.
Respectfully,
Lucas W. Boyken
Computer Systems Associates
Account Manager / Technical Representative
lboyken@xxxxxxxxx
Company Phone: 800.222.7601
Office Phone: 515.332.2751
Fax: 515.332.5687
-----Original Message-----
From: Magnus [mailto:magnus@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:21 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
Just food for thought
If Microsoft went to Open source we would have alot less problems, That
is why Linux is alot more stable than Windows would be. Also the fact
that 3rd party software vendors do not adhere to OS programming
standards doesnt suprise me when 30 to 45% of the time Microsoft's own
programmers do not adhere to those standards.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Lucas Boyken
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:50 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
Neil,
After a while, you will see that I enjoy the discussion more so than the
actual position that I take in that discussion. I hope this leaves no
hard feelings between us. At the end of the day, I like learning about
what makes people tick, why they choose the positions they take, etc.
Respectfully,
Lucas W. Boyken
Computer Systems Associates
Account Manager / Technical Representative
lboyken@xxxxxxxxx
Company Phone: 800.222.7601
Office Phone: 515.332.2751
Fax: 515.332.5687
-----Original Message-----
From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:45 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
You do realise the irony of your perspective, now, is almost a U-turn
from the one you were arguing against me, regarding Microsoft and their
software quality-control? ;-)
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucas Boyken [mailto:lboyken@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 02 July 2003 16:35
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
Importance: High
Slow down. SP4, and a majority of the service packs released, work fine
with Microsoft products. Simply because you have chosen a third party
piece of software, you cannot blame Microsoft for all the adverse
reactions that it has to new updates. Microsoft can only control the
code that they put into their products. They cannot control, to a large
degree, the code that third party vendors put into their products. We
have had this discussion before on this board, and it just dawned on me
why I have suffered so few errors with service packs compared to many of
the responses I have recieved. Could it be, and this is just a
suggestion, but could it be because a majority of you are using Citrix
that this is the cause of many of your headaches and not Microsoft. Let
me make a point, Microsoft develops and manufactures software, and this
software is the only code that they have direct control over. If a
third party vendor/manufacturer decides to code a program and doesn't
follow the guidelines set out in the OS's whitepapers, etc. any errors
or problems should not automatically be assigned to Microsoft. We must
look at the total picture and realize that there is a lot in play here.
Very possibly it could be that Citrix has not be coding correctly or to
the standards that Microsoft has put out.
Respectfully,
Lucas W. Boyken
Computer Systems Associates
Account Manager / Technical Representative
lboyken@xxxxxxxxx
Company Phone: 800.222.7601
Office Phone: 515.332.2751
Fax: 515.332.5687
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Murphy [mailto:brian_murphy@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:10 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Win2k SP4
Importance: High
Gee. Sounds exactly like my issue a few posts back....
"Post SP4 Issue - Desktop Login"
How hard is it to create a Service Pack that doesn't screw everything
up?
I could understand the first, 2nd, and maybe the 3rd SP but come on
guys. This is the 4th SP.
Luckily, I have not deployed this to any production systems yet but this
is still ridiculous.
Frank,
Just curious. What type of Hardware was this deployed on and were any
other updates applied other than the Service Pack during the same time
frame?
Thanks.
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