[THIN] Re: VMWare ESX

  • From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:15:07 -0700

Ron, 

Are the pauses you ses OS level, Softgrid, or, application level?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax 
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:52 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX


Ahh so we are on the same page. Cool.  
AS for softgrid on VM (two pieces of new technology at once). We have it in
a lab but that is all. MF FR3, on 2k3, running the Softgrid client in VM,
hell even the softgrid server is a vm.

My partner has it at his house right now! On a dual with 3 gb of ram. Seems
OK, we are trying to work out where some pauses in the system come from now.

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
 
RapidApp
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:41 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX


Ron,

That is a very worthwhile clarification- I did not mean to suggest that one
should take a resource constrained farm of physical servers and virtualize
them. It is much more about consolidating under utilized servers and/or
separating application/OS conflict issues. Also, as you point out, if DR is
the first priority then you might choose to virtualize.

BTW- Do you have experience/feedback running the Softricity SoftGrid client
on a Metaframe VM? Any "gotchas" there?


Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax 
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:35 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX


Steve.
Gotta hit this one:
>What the published studies actually show is that you end up with less
users
>per Virtual Machine then on the same physical hardware, however, you
can >run
>more VM's than physical instances of the OS and as a result you
actually >end
>up with around 20% more total users on the same hardware!

I am not standing up for the published study thing BUT being with the
largest single location VMware partner I gotta talk about VM and Citrix a
little.

It has pros and cons and myself and another of our consultants here have run
some simulations and cost benifts and worry about the "perceived savings"
with Citrix and VM. We spec it for CSGs WI, ZDCs, under utilized silos etc.
BUT VMWARE shines when hardware is underutilized. If your silo runs at 90%
all the time (lets say processor) then taking two duals and collapsing them
onto a quad after the purchase of a VMware ESX lic and their SMP lic module
the cost is to high to justify unless the primary goal is portability of the
DSK files.

Now this is not to say that if you are hitting OS limits within a citrix
farm and not hardware limits (such as running out of paged pool kernel mem,
registry space etc) that using VMWare to partition the hardware will get you
more users/sessions per physical box. This is the truth. BUT if your servers
are truly physical resource constrained then we have found it better to
focus VMware in the lower utilized one off silos and still have the ability
to port primary silos to VMWare if needed (use a PTV to get the images
before hand and just store them)

Just my 2 cents.



Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
 
RapidApp
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:14 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX

>>...The reason that I think we have not seen this is that people
perceive
that the overhead of VMware means that you end up with fewer concurrent
users on two VM's on a quad, then you would with two separate dual CPU
servers. 
 
What the published studies actually show is that you end up with less users
per Virtual Machine then on the same physical hardware, however, you can run
more VM's than physical instances of the OS and as a result you actually end
up with around 20% more total users on the same hardware!

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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